The civilian PDW, my Sig MPX Copperhead.

[SteyrAUG]

The problem is the "in general" part. With a stock/brace that short, you're super scrunched up; I don't find that to be conducive to shooting outside of standing on a flat range with no movement, or possibly barricade work. As for being a better platform for optics, I don't see any major advantages over an optic ready handgun. If reciprocation is such a big deal, you could always get a rail mount, à la ALG 6SM or other open-gun-type options. You can't easily mount a WML on it except at the 1200, and then with as short as the handguard is, switchology will be wonky. The barrel is 3.5", not 7.5". There is no real way to attach a suppressor, given that it has an integrated flash hider. The magazine it ships with is a 20 rounder; pretty easy to fit in a larger mag for a pistol.

So I've done the shooting under, around and over with a MP5K and a MP5K-PDW, I will take the "short, scrunched up" stock every time.

As far as optics, when was the last time you put a Eo XPS2 on a handgun?

As far as barrels, I was discussing most PDW platforms, not this one specifically.

[Defaultmp3]

So I've done the shooting under, around and over with a MP5K and a MP5K-PDW, I will take the "short, scrunched up" stock every time.

Sure, I'll take a stock over no stock if we're talking about PDW sized weapons. But the comparison is handgun to tiny PCC with a super short stock, not tiny PCC with super short stock versus tiny PCC with no stock. In terms of shooting performance, anecdotally, we had a CBP AMO guy show up with a Glock 47 and an APC9K at a local competition; he did much better with his Glock than his APC9K. When we all coonfingered it afterwards, we all agreed that it kinda sucked to shoot, and that the pistol would typically be a better choice, outside of utilizing the APC9K's select fire capability. The AMO guy himself noted that he much preferred his MK18 over the APC9K in terms of just shooting mechanics, and was more than willing to take the hit on extra space the MK18 took in the cockpit.

As far as optics, when was the last time you put a Eo XPS2 on a handgun?

If size is such an issue, I don't think an EOTech would be a viable option to begin with.

As far as barrels, I was discussing most PDW platforms, not this one specifically.

As I've noted, my complaint isn't against PDWs in general, but the MPX Copperhead specifically. I explicitly named things like the MPX K to be fine.

[Red*Lion]

I like it OP.

[darin10000]

My 9" .357 SIG AR platform PCC runs 100% with Glock mags. Don't be afraid to try it. In my experience, finding a barrel will be the toughest part. I needed no special parts to make it run 125gr pills from the start.

[WickedWillis]

It was between this and a flux raider for me when I was thinking tiny bag gun for travel. I own the raider currently.

[georgeib]

My 9" .357 SIG AR platform PCC runs 100% with Glock mags. Don't be afraid to try it. In my experience, finding a barrel will be the toughest part. I needed no special parts to make it run 125gr pills from the start.

@yoni was trying to build one, but kept running into various roadblocks. Where did you find the barrel?

[SteyrAUG]

As I've noted, my complaint isn't against PDWs in general, but the MPX Copperhead specifically.

My error, I was speaking in general "handguns vs PDWs."

[C-grunt]

Sure, I'll take a stock over no stock if we're talking about PDW sized weapons. But the comparison is handgun to tiny PCC with a super short stock, not tiny PCC with super short stock versus tiny PCC with no stock. In terms of shooting performance, anecdotally, we had a CBP AMO guy show up with a Glock 47 and an APC9K at a local competition; he did much better with his Glock than his APC9K. When we all coonfingered it afterwards, we all agreed that it kinda sucked to shoot, and that the pistol would typically be a better choice, outside of utilizing the APC9K's select fire capability. The AMO guy himself noted that he much preferred his MK18 over the APC9K in terms of just shooting mechanics, and was more than willing to take the hit on extra space the MK18 took in the cockpit.

If size is such an issue, I don't think an EOTech would be a viable option to begin with.

As I've noted, my complaint isn't against PDWs in general, but the MPX Copperhead specifically. I explicitly named things like the MPX K to be fine.

If the targets are all under 25 yards then yes the duty pistol is probably faster if you are a good pistol shot. But if we start putting tatlrgets out at 50-100 yards you'd have to be a world class pistol shooter to outshoot me with a short stocked or braced PCC.

[Defaultmp3]

If the targets are all under 25 yards then yes the duty pistol is probably faster if you are a good pistol shot. But if we start putting tatlrgets out at 50-100 yards you'd have to be a world class pistol shooter to outshoot me with a short stocked or braced PCC.

I don't know if I agree with that. I can hit a 100 yard IPSC target without much issue, maybe 3 seconds from the draw with my concealment setup, and I'm hardly a world class shooter, just a lowly high C-class open USPSA, if we're doing just flat range stuff. I think a lot of folks have way too low an expectation with handguns.

If you're braced up against a barricade, sure, I can see it being faster with the Copperhead for follow-on shots, but that seems such an extraordinarily niche role to have, to sacrifice everything else with the Copperhead, when something just a smidge bigger can have a lot more capability. I can fit a whole LAW-folded 10.3" AR into a day pack (albeit it does look a little funky), while people are throwing Rattlers into laptop bags.

Not my pics, but a feller I know fits his MCX Rattler LT (6.75" barrel) into a 15 liter messenger bag.



An MPX K or CZ Evo K is like 14" folded. SIG's website says that the Copperhead is 11.8", probably slightly over 12" if you consider the folding mechanism of a stock. For 2" or 3", you get way more bang for buck, IMO, with much more usable rails, ability to mount a can, etc.

[henri]

At one point in my life I would have said these items were a bit of overkill, no pun intended; and that a pistol and perhaps a spare mag depending on the locale and possible scenarios would be more than sufficient to handle any untoward event. However, given the state of the world, the inane political situation, hordes of criminal illegal aliens in most areas, such an item is more than reasonable to carry about and keep in vehicle. Now to develop one for myself given the suggestions noted here.