The Mantis BlackbeardX Trigger Reset - Dry Fire Laser System

[SteyrAUG]

So I've had one for a few weeks now. You might be wondering if you should buy one. The answer is "maybe."

Here's the website with cool YT video showing how it's the greatest thing since self contained cartridges.

https://mantisx.com/pages/blackbeard...xoCQ0wQAvD_BwE

Here's mine installed.



On the surface, it's the greatest training aid to come along since the shot timer. In fact when combined with the free app and the use of smart targets (which can be downloaded for FREE and printed on your computer at home) it is a trigger activated consistently accurate laser and your phone tracks shots, accuracy, spread and even functions as a shot timer. Multiple interesting targets and even practical shooting drills which are included in the FREE app.

So for those of us who have been running dry fire drills where you run the charging handle to cock the hammer, sight picture - trigger break - repeat...this seems like a great leap forward since it essentially provides semi auto dry fire drills via the trigger reset system and allows daily training indoors...even with a price of $250-300 it could pay for itself in a couple weeks given the cost of ammo.

And that is why I bought one. And is does do all that...kinda.

The first BIG limitation is despite windage and elevation adjustments the laser must remain concentric with the bore or else it is reflecting off of the sides of the bore and is no longer a projected dot. This means there is no reconcile the Mantis system to your currently zeroed rifle but instead you must rezero your rifle to the bore line of laser. So for those hoping to simply pull the bolt from your current home defense gun, drop in your Mantis kit and start training with your current zero...forget it.

And for those doing close range / in the room drills I have my rear sight almost to the top and my front sight bottomed out and I still don't have a coinciding zero. With RDS sights you can probably dump them down low enough to get them to agree, but it will be annoying and to a slight degree will over time change the way you naturally point shoot.

Now if I ignore my iron sights and just eye ball things over the sights I do pretty good at "in the room" distances and that laser does provide great feedback and follow up shots become more consistent. I used to do this with my MP5 as I could see hits on paper (9mm makes bigger holes than .223) when running drills and adjust fire on follow ups. But this really brings you kind of back to airsoft realism vs live fire training in terms of performance.

If you just want to CQB all day and point shoot, it will do that and do it acceptably well even if you are now training yourself to perform with a laser projected shot vs a live firearm. You also won't have a full trigger break, hammer drop, muzzle blast, recoil or any of those things. Some people will continue to run dry fire drills where they manually run the charging handle to reset the trigger because they are actually using their sights and it's still probably a more precise training tool.

But what if you wanted to run at distance, say 30-50 yards where the laser and sights will finally start to agree and work together as a practical dry fire exercise. Well since your phone records and calculates performance, I'm not sure just how accurate you iphone camera will be at those ranges and visually you won't have the immediate feedback you will get at 30 feet. So you will still be limited by what you can do.

So what can you actually do given the limitations of you phone. Well you won't be doing multiple stage drills. When you set your phone up on a tripod to score your session, only those targets that are in the field of your phone will be in play. You can set up 5 targets but they will still be clustered on the same wall inside something like a 6 foot by 6 foot area. There is also a control target that you shoot areas of to end and start sessions which also must be in the same field of view.

The result struck me as reminiscent of those old arcade shooting video games where you have a gun on a cable shooting at bad guys on the video screen and your sights really don't mean a damn things and it's point and shoot. Really cool at first but then kind of got dull but at least you don't have to feed it quarters.

After two weeks I have already mostly abandoned the app given it's limitations and the fact that I'm not really using my sights so it's kinda pointless and I'm just stalking the basement area engaging wall outlets, knick knacks on the shelf or whatever I deem a target of opportunity when I turn the corner. We are back to instinctive "point shooting" but honestly I did it with my MP5 on live fire drills so it's not gonna be a massive training scar.

The other nice thing is unlike zapping targets with airsoft, you at least have the weight of your actual rifle that you run with so that's a big plus in my book.

I still need to drop it in one of my SBRs with a RDS I can top out and maybe I'll actually have something where I can work precision drills with the app. Just haven't got around to it yet and want to see what I can max out on an iron sight carbine (14.5" SBR btw).

Running rapid doubles / triples is of course completely different from doing it live fire, even with respect to the feel of the reset. So that will somewhat change the way you shoot your rifle for better or worse.

But I think it's still gonna be a useful gadget. If you let someone else set up your targets in different rooms and do a room clearing exercise where you point shoot you get a "reasonable" idea of how fast and effectively you can engage targets as they present themselves and that's something most people don't get in their training because most of us don't have kill houses and even clubs which present real world drills still are gonna have limitations.

Right now I tend to shoot almost every other night so 4 days a week for almost an hour session. The battery (red magazine) is USB rechargeable and you get a lot of time out of a full charge, just don't leave it in the rifle if you aren't training. And I'm doing this far more frequently than the standard dry fire drills I was doing which I maybe did once a week for almost half an hour. I did worry that constantly running the charging handle might be somewhat detrimental to actual shooting skills so I didn't want it to be the thing I did most.

Interestingly enough, they also make a 9mm drop in laser cartridge for handguns, and while it means you are running your SIG, HK or Beretta DA for every shot it might not be too terrible and as a benefit would clean up your DA trigger skills. I'll probably grab one of those too as they seem to be only about $20. Will have the same advantages / disadvantages when combined with the drills on the app or you can just laser shoot your own targets wherever you put them and use visual feed backs.

So knowing what I know, I'd probably buy it again because I have found some more practical "out of the box" applications that don't require your phone or app. I probably won't start using that stuff until I get a handgun cartridge.

But in the meantime, somebody has finally developed an electronic trigger reset for your AR rifle and it's what us "garage range" shooters have been wishing somebody would invent for the last 20 years.

[Screwball]

I’ve played with mine a on/off for a few months. Really just use the dry fire and keep sights on a specific target.

Another downside… if you are running a Colt or a MG, you can’t use it. Something with needing that area where the sear block/auto sear are located to function. Not a huge deal… unless your gun of choice is in that group.

[ABNAK]

Using an AR in a CQB scenario you will be holding high anyway, no? Like aim at the forehead to hit the nose type of thing.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

What $20 handgun version are you talking about? I got in the $150 version that mounts on the pic rail, but I haven’t had a chance to run it yet.

How fast is the recoil? Do your splits suffer compared to a real gun? I’d worry about the cycling being slow and building up training scars that way. For the handgun system, I’m looking to improve accuracy by working on my (*&%&*)%)* flinch, I mean recoil anticipation. For the rifle, it would be target transitions and splits.

Is the offset what you’d have from POA to POI at these actual ranges? Or were you hoping to have 10 feet have the same POA/POI as a simulated longer range?
Have another red dot sight on a QD mount zero’d for it?

[1168]

Using an AR in a CQB scenario you will be holding high anyway, no? Like aim at the forehead to hit the nose type of thing.

Yes, on the order of 2.5”-3”. Some instructors use walkback drills to demonstrate this. It also shows up in Dot Torture if your pistol wears a RDS.

SteyrAUG, about the weight mismatch of airsoft guns: there are ones with real weight, but they tend to be spendy, and you’re already aware of their other limitations. You mentioned seeing your hits and adjusting with a live MP5… another fun way to do that in low-light is to shoot 147s with a shiny jacketed or plated base with something like a Modlight OKW. It’s like the world’s slowest moving tracers because the ass off them reflects light brilliantly. It’s of limited real value, but ridiculously fun, and works well at moderate 9mm distances.

Thanks for the review.

[markm]

Yeah. I looked at the Mantis for a brief moment. After digging in, I was way less excited. I'd much prefer some sort of actual reciprocation action in a system. I'm sure that would be more complex and expensive, but for what the Mantis offers, It'd be gathering dust after a week for me.

[ABNAK]

The Infantry Museum at Ft. Benning (oops, Ft. Moore ) had an M4 rigged up with a pneumatic recoil thing that actually pushed back about like what a 5.56 would. It "fired" a little laser beam to indicate a hit on target. Biggest downside was the rubber tubing running out from the bottom of the weapon to the compressed air source, so it *could* get in the way (I assume this was meant for stationary firing?).

[markm]

The Infantry Museum at Ft. Benning (oops, Ft. Moore ) had an M4 rigged up with a pneumatic recoil thing that actually pushed back about like what a 5.56 would. It "fired" a little laser beam to indicate a hit on target. Biggest downside was the rubber tubing running out from the bottom of the weapon to the compressed air source, so it *could* get in the way (I assume this was meant for stationary firing?).

Yeah. I think I've seen film of those being used in mil training. I'd be happy with a unit that reciprocated like a 22 rimfire. Just something to make it moderately realistic.

[joedirt199]

A buddy of mine used to run a virtual shooting range business. He had air actuaged glocks, ARs and laser revolvers for shooting at the scenarios on the screens. The glocks kept breaking the recoil spring loop off from the air cycling recoil. Worked good and you could shoot target matches, or action games, self defense, etc. I broke in a new 642 with some concealed carry scenes and shooting matches while working for him one weekend.

[1168]

The Infantry Museum at Ft. Benning (oops, Ft. Moore ) had an M4 rigged up with a pneumatic recoil thing that actually pushed back about like what a 5.56 would. It "fired" a little laser beam to indicate a hit on target. Biggest downside was the rubber tubing running out from the bottom of the weapon to the compressed air source, so it *could* get in the way (I assume this was meant for stationary firing?).

That’s the EST(insert whatever number here), I think. There’s a bunch of them on Ft Jackson and Benning, and a few on Bragg. I’m sure elsewhere, too. Dudes can practice zeroing, scenarios, and quals on them, though it’s super weird visually because of the 2d effect. Also, when civilians are running them, it’s kinda shitty because they’re usually too lazy or stupid to adjust the zeros electronically when shit goes wrong.

There are versions for machineguns, as well. And one that’s like a pinball machine that can be put in barracks or whatever, though I don’t remember it having recoil.