April 24, 1980

[T2C]

I am going from memory, but I think Eagle Claw was overly complicated and then the really big problem was everyone wanted in on the act.
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The issue with the helicopters if I remember correctly was that they were off of a ship and suffered from maintenance issues.But this failure resulted in the creation of the Night Stalkers.

If I heard correctly, the different commanders involved in planning and preparation were not forthcoming with information needed to properly prepare for and execute the rescue operation. IIRC different steps should have been taken to prepare the aircraft involved in the operation. I am not an aviation rate, so I can't intelligently elaborate on what the Airdales complained about afterwards.

I do believe the 160th SOAR was created as a result of the problems associated with the operation.

[ABNAK]

If I heard correctly, the different commanders involved in planning and preparation were not forthcoming with information needed to properly prepare for and execute the rescue operation. IIRC different steps should have been taken to prepare the aircraft involved in the operation. I am not an aviation rate, so I can't intelligently elaborate on what the Airdales complained about afterwards.

I do believe the 160th SOAR was created as a result of the problems associated with the operation.

In addition to Eagle Claw, I have read that Operation Urgent Fury (Grenada) also involved everyone wanting in on the action. Of course it was only 3+ years after the debacle at Desert One so there were still some hiccups.

[SteyrAUG]

In addition to Eagle Claw, I have read that Operation Urgent Fury (Grenada) also involved everyone wanting in on the action. Of course it was only 3+ years after the debacle at Desert One so there were still some hiccups.

Even as late as 1989 we were making the same kind of mistakes. Mostly because of their fame for "getting it done", NSW team 4 was tasked with taking Punta Paitilla Airport during Just Cause when really it was the kind of thing Rangers excel at. Add in some basic miscommunication on the ground and a bunch of guys got caught in the open with unfortunate results.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Even as late as 1989 we were making the same kind of mistakes. Mostly because of their fame for "getting it done", NSW team 4 was tasked with taking Punta Paitilla Airport during Just Cause when really it was the kind of thing Rangers excel at. Add in some basic miscommunication on the ground and a bunch of guys got caught in the open with unfortunate results.

I've heard that many times from different places about Rangers. When and where did this come in as doctrine? I can understand wanting airfields, but why the Rangers? What about the rangers makes them the go-to and not just airborne troops? Coming out of WWII, I would think that if anyone, Marine Recon would be tasked with it after the island jumping campaign in the Pacific.

I also hear about the Ranger Battalion, but there is more than one, right? Or is it one is on standby all the time.

[SteyrAUG]

I've heard that many times from different places about Rangers. When and where did this come in as doctrine? I can understand wanting airfields, but why the Rangers? What about the rangers makes them the go-to and not just airborne troops? Coming out of WWII, I would think that if anyone, Marine Recon would be tasked with it after the island jumping campaign in the Pacific.

I also hear about the Ranger Battalion, but there is more than one, right? Or is it one is on standby all the time.

In general terms, it's about having more experience with that kind of stuff vs. NSW which has their unique skill sets.

https://www.army.mil/ranger/

The 75th Ranger Regiment

75th Ranger Regiment

The 75th Ranger Regiment is a lethal, agile and flexible force, capable of conducting many complex, joint special operations missions. Today's Ranger regiment is the Army's premier direct-action raid force. Each of the four geographically dispersed Ranger battalions is always combat ready, mentally and physically tough, and prepared to fight our country's adversaries. Their capabilities include conducting airborne and air assault operations, seizing key terrain such as airfields, destroying strategic facilities, and capturing or killing enemies of the nation. Rangers are capable of conducting squad through regimental-size operations and are resourced to maintain exceptional proficiency, experience and readiness. The regiment remains an all-volunteer force with an intensive screening and selection process followed by combat-focused training. The 75th Ranger Regiment is a proud unit and a team of teams - serving the nation.

[Slater]

Grenada had it's share of "oops" moments. A-7E's bombing a mental ward (which led to mental patients wandering around the island) and also strafing some 82nd Airborne troops. In a battle between two AH-1T Sea Cobra helicopters and 23mm AA guns, the 23mm again showed why it's devastating against thinly armored helicopters.

[chuckman]

Grenada was a test bed for the new SOCOM and embedded units (including Delta and ST6, which, of course, weren't SOCOM). In Granada everyone DID want a piece of the pie, and there were some real disasters. Panama was much the same.

[Slater]

The Grenada operation was assigned to Atlantic Command, whose (then) primary mission was to escort convoys to Europe in the event of a major conflict. They apparently lacked the expertise to carry out such an operation so additional advisors had to be assigned, one of which was Norman Schwartzkopf.

[Alpha-17]

I've heard that many times from different places about Rangers. When and where did this come in as doctrine? I can understand wanting airfields, but why the Rangers? What about the rangers makes them the go-to and not just airborne troops? Coming out of WWII, I would think that if anyone, Marine Recon would be tasked with it after the island jumping campaign in the Pacific.

I also hear about the Ranger Battalion, but there is more than one, right? Or is it one is on standby all the time.

Rangers are just an elite unit of airborne infantry. Taking and holding terrain is the core Infantry mission, so they make the most sense.

Marine Force Recon does far more than just Recon, but that is their core mission.

SEALs are more direct action/raid type operations.

[ABNAK]

Grenada was a test bed for the new SOCOM and embedded units (including Delta and ST6, which, of course, weren't SOCOM). In Granada everyone DID want a piece of the pie, and there were some real disasters. Panama was much the same.

Like four Navy SEALs drowning? SEALs don't usually drown.

Delta was near the airfield before the Rangers jumped in but were essentially pinned down. (from the link I posted below) A U.S. Army Delta Force reconnoitered Point Salines for the next day's invasion. Both the
SEALs and the Delta Force ran into stiff enemy opposition in the St. George's area and at nearby Point Salines.

Good detailed read here about Grenada: https://media.defense.gov/2012/Aug/2...urgentfury.pdf

Guy in my unit in Panama, SGT Pack, was at that time a Ranger in the first pass of aircraft to jump into Point Salines. Had the "mustard stain" on his jump wings. He told us that his group of Rangers got dropped and the aircraft were taking heavy fire from AAA. They temporarily halted dropping anymore guys as they called in an AC-130 Spectre to work over the AAA positions. The guys on the ground didn't know this and all they saw when they hit the ground was the rest of the C-130's pull away. He said the first thing that crossed his mind was "Holy fvck, they left us!"

Essentially it was a clusterfvck that managed to work in the end.