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Thread: Questions About This Image

  1. #1
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    Questions About This Image

    DocGKR,

    I've seen this image and some others with a wound track profile overlaid on a human skull or torso and I am confused. My understanding is that the wound profile illustrates bullet performance in human leg muscle tissue or equivalent media [swine leg muscle or properly calibrated geletin].

    It is my understanding that neither the skull nor the torso offer as much resistance as muscle tissue. Is this correct? Or do bullets, having penetrated the cranial vault, exhibit similar effects as when penetrating muscle tissue?

    If so, it would seem that overlaying the wound profile onto the skull or torso presents an inaccurate depiction of bullet performance.

    Sincerely, I am not attempting to be a smartass. This has been on my mind since I started seeing these images [yours and similar ones overlaying wound profiles on CT scans, I believe].

    Sincerely,

    Paul Gomez
    "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." -- Charles Peguy

    I currently teach for Tactical Response.

    I have taught for Options for Personal Security, Tac Pro Shooting Center, and Shivworks, as well as teaching under my own banner.

    I have given presentations at Tom Given's Polite Society Conferences, the National Tactical Invitational and Gabe Suarez's WarriorTalk Symposia.

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    You make a very good point. I don't think this overlay was meant to be accurate since duplicating the anatomy of the skull with gel isn't really possible. However, a fragmenting load will still begin is tumble and breakup in any hydrolic substance of the consistancy of body tissues within a similar penetration depth. So, this load should still have a high level of fragmentation in the cranial cavity and blow out the back of the skull. I've seen it with 5.56 OTM.

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    Marcus,

    I appreciate the info. That basicly jibes with my assessment of the image. I just haven't seen any significant discussion or elucidation on the merit or purpose of these images from the guys posting them.

    Thanks,

    Gomez
    "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." -- Charles Peguy

    I currently teach for Tactical Response.

    I have taught for Options for Personal Security, Tac Pro Shooting Center, and Shivworks, as well as teaching under my own banner.

    I have given presentations at Tom Given's Polite Society Conferences, the National Tactical Invitational and Gabe Suarez's WarriorTalk Symposia.

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    Gomez,

    There have been LE trainers who have cautioned snipers not to make head shots unless they could be sure of hitting the "medulla oblongata" or "motor cortex"; the wound profile overlay illustrates the stupidity of that thinking by showing how the fragmentation pattern and temporary stretch effects of a rifle caliber projectile impacting the cranial vault will clearly cause profound damage to those structures with the likely result of blowing the back of the skull off and herniating the brain stem out the foramen magnum--think about the Zapruder film showing a non-expanding, non-fragmenting projectile hitting President Kennedy's head...

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    i assume this applies to handgun cartridges too?
    "you give peace a chance, I'll stay here and cover you, in case it doesn't work out"

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    Gomez,

    There have been LE trainers who have cautioned snipers not to make head shots unless they could be sure of hitting the "medulla oblongata" or "motor cortex"; the wound profile overlay illustrates the stupidity of that thinking by showing how the fragmentation pattern and temporary stretch effects of a rifle caliber projectile impacting the cranial vault will clearly cause profound damage to those structures with the likely result of blowing the back of the skull off and herniating the brain stem out the foramen magnum--think about the Zapruder film showing a non-expanding, non-fragmenting projectile hitting President Kennedy's head...

    Thank you, sir.
    "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." -- Charles Peguy

    I currently teach for Tactical Response.

    I have taught for Options for Personal Security, Tac Pro Shooting Center, and Shivworks, as well as teaching under my own banner.

    I have given presentations at Tom Given's Polite Society Conferences, the National Tactical Invitational and Gabe Suarez's WarriorTalk Symposia.

  7. #7
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    "i assume this applies to handgun cartridges too?"
    No, it does not apply to typical service caliber and smaller handgun projectiles.

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    at "typical" handgun distance, say 25 yards, which barrel length/cartridge combos that would accomplish instant incapacitation? i'm specifically interested in 45acp and 9mm
    Last edited by theJanitor; 02-27-09 at 19:45.
    "you give peace a chance, I'll stay here and cover you, in case it doesn't work out"

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    Simple answer--NONE.

  10. #10
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    What would be the minimum pistol caliber which could completely penetrate a live human skull? My question is based on how small is too small caliber wise for off duty carry were a head shot may have to be taken on a active shooter. I wonder if my S&W model 37 2"bbl loaded with Safe Stop plated full wad-cutters can do the job at say 15yds?

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