Charles Daly M4 general consensus?

[rob_s]

As nice as "The Chart" is, it's a fairly sterile evaluation of certain models of different manufacturers' rifles. Those that have actually used the rifles can give a much better idea of how they actually function in certain types of usage. In a way the chart is like comparing a Nighthawk Talon vs a Nighthawk GRP. The GRP is actually a better fighting gun based on simplicity and durablility, but there are plenty of people who want a Talon because they like the fit and finish. "The Chart" imparts none of this type of information, only presenting which rifle is the most "mil-spec" (and BTW, if a company isn't actually selling to the US government, then they can claim to be mil-spec all they want, but they aren't).

Opening paragraph from the Explanation of Features (which everyone wants to ignore, and which in fact is way more informative than the Chart itself):

Without the information in the explanations below, The Chart(s) on the following tabs of this file are all but worthless. It is critical, when considering an M4-pattern carbine, to ensure that you understand the list of features and can figure out for yourself if a specific feature is applicable to your intended use. If a sufficient number of the features below and on The Chart are not applicable to your use, then perhaps an M4-pattern carbine is not the right choice for you.

[Rider79]

I'm confused, I thought the barrel steels and twist rate was the other way around between the DM4 and the DM4LE?

First, thanks to all who posted with the positive replies. Second, I want to address the comments in the above quote...

Our D-M4LE is certainly considered the "flagship" model in our line, particularly to M4C members and others who want a 6920 clone at a reasonable price.

However, I think that to call our other models "lower end" is a misnomer. All of our guns are built with the same quality and attention to detail. Only the specificaitons change from model to model.

For example, the only differences between our D-M4 and the D-M4LE are as follows:

D-M4



D-M4.....Mil-Spec barrel (MIL-B-11595E, CrMoV Grade), chrome lined with 1:7 twist
D-M4.....Commercial receiver extension with standard carbine buffer

D-M4LE



D-M4LE.....4140 barrel, chrome lined with 1:9 twist
D-M4LE.....Mi-Spec receiver extension with "H" buffer

Some AR shooters will be quite content with the D-M4 for the type of range shooting or hunting they may do. Others may want the D-M4LE for the better barrel steel and slower twist, or for the greater ease in changing some after-market buttstocks.

My point is that both are made with the same quality of construction and attention to detail. Both have M4 feedramps, T-Marked uppers, proper castle nut and gas key staking, chrome lined bolt carrier, black extractor insert with Crane O-ring, forged upper and lower with hard coat anodizing and teflon finish. Both use the same buttstock and double heat shield forend. Both use the same forged charging handle and forged A3 detachable carry handle. They are exactly the same gun with only barrel steel, twist, diameter of receiver extension and buffer used. To say that one is "low end" and the other is not would not be correct. They are all good.

Our D-M4S is a D-M4 with a picatinny railed gas block and no carry handle but adds two 3-slot picatinny railed mini-riser blocks for proper scope height mounting on the flattop upper. (The "Optics Ready" appraoch.) Perfert for a plinker or a hunter that wants to properly fit a scope with a large objective to the flattop upper, or add front and rear BUIS with the front mounted on the gas block and the rear on the flattop.

D-M4S



Our new D-M4LED goes one step better than the standard D-M4LE by adding a Daniel Defense Lite Rail 7.0 with 3-ladder type rail covers in FDE, Magpul Miad Grip Kit (complete) in FDE, Magpul CTR/M in FDE and a Troy BUIS, (though pictured in black it is) also in FDE. This model will be sold exclusively through Davidson's GalleryofGuns.com.

D-M4LED





Our DV-24 is a dedicated Varmint/Match gun, with a 24" stainless steel bull barrel with a 1:8 twist, a two-stage trigger, a ported aluminum handguard and an Ace buttstock. Purpose build for varmint hunting or match shooting.

DV-24



Again, not everyone wants a 6920 clone for one reason or another, yet they want a high quality build more purpose built for their actual type of shooting. And with the modualrity of the AR, they can always buy a new upper at a later date that might have an application that wasn't there when the gun was first purchased.

There is a home for all of these guns in our line and I think we would have been doing ourselves, and our customers a disservice if we had only offered one model.

Edit: There are so many bottlenecks in production right now that we are forced to introduce a new model if we want to be able to increase production. This will be the D-M4P. This gun will be the exact same gun as the D-M4 but without a chrome lined barrel and without M4 Feedramps. I hate to come to market with a gun that has less features than we have gotten a reputation for, but if we continue to insist on waiting for chrome lined barrels and waiting for uppers with M4 Feedramps, we will not be able to build all the guns that we could be selling in this current market condition. We need to get our production ramped up to 500-1,000 per week (while maintaining excellent QC) and this is the only way for our company to accomplish that. If we insist on chrome lining and M4 Feedramps we will be stuck at 100 pieces per week. Which would you produce?

[rob_s]

I'm confused, I thought the barrel steels and twist rate was the other way around between the DM4 and the DM4LE?

I think you're right.

Did you have to quote the whole entire CDD post though?!

[Rider79]

I think you're right.

Did you have to quote the whole entire CDD post though?!

Sorry. Using my phone browser, doesn't let you scroll to the end of the message to start deleting it back to the part you want to show. This is all a moot point anyway, it's not like you can find a CD M4LE.

[ToddG]

This is all a moot point anyway, it's not like you can find a CD M4LE.

As Michael K. pointed out, right now the demand for chrome lining is huge because all of the lower-tier companies are eating up capacity. (most companies outsource their chrome lining because it's so expensive to set up and requires hazardous materials).

Beretta has (or at least had) pretty extensive chrome lining capability for the M9 project, I wonder if anyone has contacted them about the possibility of doing M4 barrels.

[Gentoo]

Mr. Kassnar, I didn't mean to imply that I thought the CDD guns were low quality. They most certainly are not, and if it came across that way then I apologize for any misunderstanding.

What I meant was from reading the back posts here and at TOS regarding entering the AR market, it seemed to me that CDD was intending to be among the Colts, LMTs, and Noveskes. (Which IMO was accomplished with the M4LE). So it struck me as incongruous that there were models with 4140 steel, 1x9 twist, non-mil spec REs. I understand WHY the are there, just as I understand the production decision to make the D-M4P.

I've edited the next paragraph about 10 times so far and it still isn't sounding right. I don't think I will be able to properly convey what I am trying to say, so I will just stop before I end up berated and (more) misunderstood.

BTW, I've not seen a D-M4LED anywhere. Was that a planned model that ended up getting scrapped due to Obamamaina? I'd love to get one....

[Charles Daly]

Some days I can be such an idiot...

I completely reversed the specs for the D-M4 and the D-M4LE.

The LE has the better barrel, 1:7 twist, mil-spec receiver extension and "H" buffer. My bad!

[Charles Daly]

...BTW, I've not seen a D-M4LED anywhere. Was that a planned model that ended up getting scrapped due to Obamamaina? I'd love to get one....

The D-M4LED is very much in production and will be available exclusively through Davidson's GalleryofGuns.com. The first batch should be in their hands in 3-4 weeks.

[jtskier11]

Good all around guns!

[Gramps]

I guess if some one doesn't like/agree with Robs chart, they are more than welcome to make their own. Just don't coppy what you don't like that some one else put a lot of time and effort into. If you can't figure it out, or don't agree with it, then don't use it. It's not our place to bash it, after all it is FREE to read, not like he sells it and forced any one to buy or read it. If you have a problem with it or a sugested improvement, them PM the owner of it, and don't bring it to the public about your disagreement.

So if you don't agree with it, then make and post your own for free, and take the risk of getting bashed.

Thanks for your efforts Rob. Even a FUDD could use it for advice as to what/why he wants to purchase.