What is the scoop on Hornady's new handgun ammo with the plastic in the hollow point.

**Alaskapopo** · 01-27-09, 00:24

This ammo looks interesting. I saw an add for it. It looks like it would help with clothing clogging the hollow point cavity and slowing and inhibiting expansion, which is a real concern for us here in Alaska.
Pat

**HowardCohodas** · 01-27-09, 00:43

Originally Posted by Alaskapopo

This ammo looks interesting. I saw an add for it. It looks like it would help with clothing clogging the hollow point cavity and slowing and inhibiting expansion, which is a real concern for us here in Alaska.
Pat

It is now my EDC in my LCP BUG.

Hornady Web Page: http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=786

Spec Sheet: http://www.hornady.com/images/sell_s...al_defense.pdf

ToddG · 01-27-09, 00:51

From what I've gathered, it's very similar to the older XTP design: deeper penetration than competing brands but not as much expansion.

The .380 variant was supposedly engineered specifically around the LCP. I look forward to seeing some good terminal ballistics testing of that load from the short gun. In the meantime, I'm sticking to the Gold Dot.

**Zhukov** · 01-27-09, 10:18

For small calibers and BUGs, my general take is:

1) Good expansion
2) Deep penetration

Pick ONE of the above.

Brassfetcher.com had tested several .380 loads that seem to prove the above line of thinking, and the one that seemed to split the middle was (I hate to say it) the Hydra Shok. It had minimal expansion (a little of 0.4" if I remember) and adequate penetration of around 12" in gelatin.

The Hornady ammo seems to follow this same line of thinking. Minimal but reliable expansion and adequate penetration. This might make sense for small caliber rounds, but I can't see using this ammo in the larger calibers like 9mm or 38spl as there are much better choices.

[ETA] I guess they only list the .380, 9mm, and .38spl right now. So I would have to say that the only caliber I would consider this in is a .380 BUG like the LCP or P3AT.

**sff70** · 01-28-09, 01:41

Deep penetation with little expansion is more effective than max expansion with shallow penetration.

Expansion should not be the #1 priority.

**HowardCohodas** · 01-28-09, 04:20

Originally Posted by sff70

Deep penetation with little expansion is more effective than max expansion with shallow penetration.

Expansion should not be the #1 priority.

Then gamma rays are your ideal choice.

**sff70** · 01-28-09, 11:18

Originally Posted by HowardCohodas

Then gamma rays are your ideal choice.

And this applies to handguns bullets how?

Are you advocating expansion at the cost of penetration?

ToddG · 01-28-09, 11:40

Originally Posted by sff70

Are you advocating expansion at the cost of penetration?

Any hollowpoint that expands does so at the cost of some penetration. In fact, just about every ballistics expert I've ever spoken to, regardless of which "camp" he fell into, seemed to agree that there was a sweet spot for penetration and too much beyond that was a waste at best and at worst an unnecessary danger.

**HowardCohodas** · 01-28-09, 11:44

Originally Posted by sff70

And this applies to handguns bullets how?

Are you advocating expansion at the cost of penetration?

Effectiveness of a round involves many variables and I have yet to hear a cogent argument in this thread to support the position that one is primary. I was using an absurdity to illustrate the absurdity of categorical statements without support or analysis.

Hornady's new ammo puts a premium on the reliability of expansion. If you agree that the damage done by expansion is a significant contributor to stopping effectiveness, then this is a useful advancement of the technology. I would argue that since bullet placement is not the most controllable variable in a SD event, that the damage done by an expanded bullet is an advantage over penetration, especially in small caliber. Since there are examples of the fight continuing several seconds after a bullet in the heart, it is hard to sustain the argument that penetration is the be all and end all.

I can also provide a good argument that penetration is also important. However, I'll leave that to the advocates of that position.

**HowardCohodas** · 01-28-09, 11:46

Originally Posted by ToddG

Any hollowpoint that expands does so at the cost of some penetration. In fact, just about every ballistics expert I've ever spoken to, regardless of which "camp" he fell into, seemed to agree that there was a sweet spot for penetration and too much beyond that was a waste at best and at worst an unnecessary danger.

As usual, Todd says succinctly what some of us blather on about. I need succinct lessons.