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Thread: Piston Rifles; LWRC or LMT?

  1. #1
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    Piston Rifles; LWRC or LMT?

    I am considering trying out a piston system AR type rifle for the first time and would like some input as to which company produces a better piston system. I would guess they are similar designs, but I'm sure there are some differences.

    I already own an LMT SBR and it is an incredible weapon. I have held one of the LWRC piston rifles, but not fired it or taken it apart to look at how the system is put together.

    Thanks in advance.
    Regards,

    OH58D
    Maj. USAR (Ret) 160th SOAR, 2/17 CAV
    NRA Life Member
    Rancho de Las Mesas Negras. Raising Fine Cattle and Horses in San Miguel County since 1879

  2. #2
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    while i cant speak for an lmt gas piston system, i have never shot one.

    but i can speak about my lwrc 6.8 m6a2 srt. i have the 14.7 w/ a p/a flash hider. this gun is top notch. took it out 2 weeks ago to the range. i had some sub moa groups with tactical ssa loads in the barnes tsx 11Og. i love this gun. here are some of the things i love:

    1) cold hammer forged barrel
    2) full auto bcg
    3) m4 feedramps machined in to the receiver and ext.
    4) spc II chamber
    5) eats tactical loads like a champ, superior accuracy
    6) reliability, no hiccups
    7) lightweight
    8) not effected by my drool raining down on it as i shoot it.

  3. #3
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    I have almost 5k rounds through my LWRC, M6A2 556 upper, so far. (mostly Wolf)

    Only cleaned it a couple times. Runs like a champ, freakishly accurate-never shoots over 1minute.

    I am not easily impressed, but I have to say, my LWRC upper/LMT Defender lower combo is my best rifle.

  4. #4
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    There is an interesting "warts and all" Pat Rogers review of the LWRC rifles in this months' SWAT. The folks over on the factory forum seem happy with it.
    Last edited by Greg Bell; 02-06-09 at 16:14.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Bell View Post
    There is an interesting "warts and all" Pat Rogers review of the LWRC rifles in this months' SWAT. The folks over on the factory forum seem happy with it.
    Love the review on swat. That gun was run hard! A gun that is run that hard will eventually have a hiccup of some sort. Pat Rogers also addressed the SWAT article in the factory forum.

    One thing he did stress on the forum was "At the end of the day, i have not only complete confidence in LWRCI, but strongly recommend their guns. "

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by OH58D View Post
    I already own an LMT SBR and it is an incredible weapon.
    OH58D
    If you already own the MRP CQB version of your LMT SBR, then all you need to do is order/get the piston conversion. It is the barrel and BCG. No other changes necessary. I have had my LMT Piston since this past summer and it is great!!! You won't go wrong with their version. I'm sure that LWRC is nice also....it was the other choice if I hadn't gone with the LMT.
    Last edited by Cohibra45; 02-07-09 at 06:45. Reason: grammer

  7. #7
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    At this point, I haven't shot either one of them. But I do like that LMT has a one-piece carrier. I've heard that LWRC is working on a one-piece carrier also so it may be a moot point in the future.

  8. #8
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    Both are great weapons. For the LWRC remember in addition to the coming one peice carrier, don't forget the:

    -cold hammer forged barrel
    -Upper assembly features a ferritic salt bath nitro carburized interior
    and exterior finish
    -Carriers featuring TeflonNickel plating

    These features have made a difference to me.

  9. #9
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    I have over 7,000-rounds through my LWRC 10.5-inch upper. Some of that is suppressed and over 2,000-rounds of that was in two different Carbine Courses.

    The only mechanical failures I've had are:
    - The buffer spring that came with the upper was faulty (Wolff Plus).
    - The extractor started failing to extract.
    - One of the Carrier key screws broke.

    LWRC sent me a new buffer spring (which I have since relegated as a backup along with the H2 buffer - I am using an H3 buffer with a flatwire CS spring). The extractor resulted in FTEs and was replaced with no further issues.

    I did not even know that the screw was busted until I decided to check the screws and the broken one kept spinning and would not tighten. LWRC shipped me a replacement Carrier overnight at no charge and I have not had any issues since.

    I am awaiting the arrival of my Select-fire Transferable AR-15 and I am considering buying another LWRC upper to use on it. YMMV.
    We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I

  10. #10
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    I know he hasn't responded yet, but I've asked this very question to rob_s.

    I found that his advice in this regard was worth serious consideration.

    I'll let him speak for himself but he's put a lot of thought into the myriad considerations.
    It is bad policy to fear the resentment of an enemy. -Ethan Allen

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlosDJackal View Post
    I have over 7,000-rounds through my LWRC 10.5-inch upper. Some of that is suppressed and over 2,000-rounds of that was in two different Carbine Courses.

    The only mechanical failures I've had are:
    - The buffer spring that came with the upper was faulty (Wolff Plus).
    - The extractor started failing to extract.
    - One of the Carrier key screws broke.

    LWRC sent me a new buffer spring (which I have since relegated as a backup along with the H2 buffer - I am using an H3 buffer with a flatwire CS spring). The extractor resulted in FTEs and was replaced with no further issues.

    I did not even know that the screw was busted until I decided to check the screws and the broken one kept spinning and would not tighten. LWRC shipped me a replacement Carrier overnight at no charge and I have not had any issues since.

    I am awaiting the arrival of my Select-fire Transferable AR-15 and I am considering buying another LWRC upper to use on it. YMMV.
    This parrallels my experience with the 16"--except the extractor hasn't failed yet . I have replaced the buffer spring that came with the rifle and staked the carrier key screws, which were not staked.
    There are none so blind as those who will not see.

  12. #12
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    I'd get the LWRC personally.
    Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
    What Happened to the American dream? It came true. You're looking at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    Leitner Weiss and Rogers. Now there's a perfect couple.
    LWRCi is not Leitner Weiss

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    Has LWRCi ever gotten into production their (non-black) anodized receivers? I've been waiting.

  15. #15
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    Does anyone have any significant time with one of the LMT piston guns yet? I really liked the piston SBR they had at SHOT but haven't been able to dig up much first-hand info...
    --Josh H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by losbronces View Post
    This parrallels my experience with the 16"--except the extractor hasn't failed yet . I have replaced the buffer spring that came with the rifle and staked the carrier key screws, which were not staked.
    Actually, since the bolt carrier does not experience heat like a DI ar, the LW socket head cap screws were red loctited and not meant to be staked.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOKNLOD View Post
    Does anyone have any significant time with one of the LMT piston guns yet?

    This is the elephant in the room. I have not seen any real usage reports on the LMT piston yet. The LWRCI has been run hard and reported, warts and all, through many revisions. Can anyone point to data on the LMT?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by epf View Post
    This is the elephant in the room. I have not seen any real usage reports on the LMT piston yet. The LWRCI has been run hard and reported, warts and all, through many revisions. Can anyone point to data on the LMT?

    I believe that LMT will be reported in time...remember, it's only been out for 6 months or so and LWRC has been out over a year longer. It will take time. With the economy and other factors, this might take more time than the LWRC to have an accurate and unbiased report. That said, I too am looking forward to seeing how LMT works under hard use. I know that the factory has used and abused this piston. That is another reason I decided to buy my LMT. They took their time releasing this version trying to make sure all the bugs were worked out prior to selling to the public. I am one of the first to get mine and I did have an issue with the failure to feed. It was traced back to the gas port size. I was using some old red and white box PMC ammo. When I called and talked with Gene Swanson at LMT, he said that all the ammo used by LMT was much better quality 5.56 and this was the first time he had heard of short stroking. He had me send in the upper and returned it back to me in a week. I haven't had any issues with it since and Gene assured me that all versions since mine have had slightly larger gas ports to accommodate any and all ammo. I have since shot Silver Bear, Prvi (55gr), and the older PMC and no issues at all.

    I too would like to see and hear someone taking LMTs Piston upper and putting it on an full auto lower and really running it hard. Maybe using it suppressed also at the same time. I know that LMT has already shot over 10,000 rounds (mostly full auto) through their own Piston, but that is not the same as others here doing their own testing.

    Has anyone been to a class or two with their LMT??? If I could afford it, I would not hesitate to take mine and run it through the paces.

  19. #19
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    I went to one of Pat's classes and shot next to a guy using the loaner LWRCi gun. That gun seemed to choke on Wolf 55gr - it was the 10.5" gun too. The guy shooting it wanted to use it since he had an early LWRCi gun that was not very reliable in the configuration he was using. I think Pat said he was going to call LWRCi and talk about why the gun was having trouble. FTEs if I remember right.

    Spooky
    Last edited by mark5pt56; 02-09-09 at 20:41.

  20. #20
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    my interest is strictly in the differences between an LMT and LWRC piston weapon. Are they identical systems, or does one have mechanics that stand out over the other?

    Regards,
    OH58D
    Last edited by mark5pt56; 02-09-09 at 20:42.
    Maj. USAR (Ret) 160th SOAR, 2/17 CAV
    NRA Life Member
    Rancho de Las Mesas Negras. Raising Fine Cattle and Horses in San Miguel County since 1879

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