Colt Combat Commander 9x23...

[LonghunterCO]

I have always had a keen interest in the 9x23. I remember reading about the guys that were developing the .50 1911. It was mentioned that the design was/might be for use aginst guys that are wearing chest rigs with loaded, steel 7.62x39 AK mags. I remember thinking instead of redesigning the 1911 up into a 50 why are they not going to the 9x23?

Very Nice Jason. Good work there.

[Marcus L.]

Ted Schuman helped in the developement of the 9x23mm for Winchester. He worked up several loads ranging from 115gr to 180gr and he commented in a "Guns and Ammo" article in the late 1990s that he could always keep its velocity from a 1911 5" barrel safely within 50fps of full power .357magnum loadings out of a 5" barrel. The only loads Winchester decided to put into production were the 124gr and 125gr which were the most requested. The heaviest commercial load I've seen in the .357sig was Federal's old 150gr load which they pulled from the market due to over-pressure problems.

Someday I'd like to get into the 9x23mm and roll my own for it. Since it is a straight walled case, it will be easier to reload and you have a greater crimping surface for bullet seating which will make it more resistant to setbacks versus the .357sig.

[RyanB]

Actually, the spec on factory ammo from Winchester was 125gr @ 1,450fps from a 5" barrel, compared to 1,350fps from a 4" barrel for 357 SIG.

For an idea of what half an inch of barrel will earn you with a high pressure pistol cartridge such as the 357 SIG, see this post at SIGforum. Guns used were a SIG P226 (4.4" bbl) and SIG P229 (3.86" bbl). Testing two lots of Gold Dot and one of Winchester Range, the OP in that thread averaged 44fps faster in the longer barrel.

Wasn't criticising the ballistics of the .357 Sig, my complaints about that cartridge are related to its other features. I would rather have a straight walled cartridge.

[Bigun]

What makes this round so much hotter than a .38 Super?? More efficient case design?

[ToddG]

First, it's a much stronger case.

Second, unlike .38 Super or even .38 Super +p which need to work in a variety of older guns, the 9x23 got to start from scratch in an age of tougher guns that can better handle high pressures. So while it's certainly possible to build a gun chambered in .38 Super that can achieve similar velocities as the 9x23, you can't find SAAMI-spec ammunition at those velocities for .38 Super (or .38 Super +p) ...

[Falboy]

I'm just curious, why modify Wilson 9mm mags when you can use Wilson .38 Super mags? Not criticising, just wondering what the reasoning is. I bought the .38 Super mags after much research, if theres a better mousetrap, I want it.

[Bigun]

First, it's a much stronger case.

Second, unlike .38 Super or even .38 Super +p which need to work in a variety of older guns, the 9x23 got to start from scratch in an age of tougher guns that can better handle high pressures. So while it's certainly possible to build a gun chambered in .38 Super that can achieve similar velocities as the 9x23, you can't find SAAMI-spec ammunition at those velocities for .38 Super (or .38 Super +p) ...

Makes sense. Thanks

[Jason Burton]

I'm just curious, why modify Wilson 9mm mags when you can use Wilson .38 Super mags? Not criticising, just wondering what the reasoning is. I bought the .38 Super mags after much research, if theres a better mousetrap, I want it.

I had the ETM magazines in the shop to run with a 9mm... it was a matter of coincidence and convenience that by simply removing the plastic spacer they worked with the 9x23.

[Falboy]

Thanks for the lightning fast reply Jason, I really admire the work of Heirloom Precision. If I didn't take so much pleasure of building my own, you folks would be my only choice for a custom.

[Shadow1198]

That is absolutely beautiful work there Mr. Burton.