NFA Approval Criterion - Lawyer Scum Needed

[exkc135driver]

I have lawyer scum on retainer to make sure these issues are addressed.

All kidding aside, having a lawyer on a monthly retainer is a very good idea for most small businesses. He/she will anticipate potential problems that you won't and will be able to steer you around them. And as previously noted by others, it's cheaper to retain a transactional lawyer on the front end than a litigator (or a criminal defense lawyer) on the back end.

It was actually my lawyer that suggested I form an LLC with my wife and use that to list as ownership of the corporation. I just didn't want to ask him how much he was going to bill me for an NFA trust before checking here first.

Every state varies. Personally I prefer corporations because (1) they are simpler and (2) whoever owns the stock effectively owns the corporation's property. Want to transfer the NFA stuff to your spouse (assuming she's not a Lizzie Borden type)? Transfer the stock to her. Want to get it back? Have her transfer the stock back to you. (Of course she might not agree.) Try that with a trust!

BUT, state regulations/taxation/etc., etc. vary greatly. It will probably cost less for your attorney to form a corporation or LLC than it will for an attorney to form an NFA trust, but you should check around. With all due respect to your attorney, few attorneys are familiar with NFA gun trusts ... if you decide to go that route, find one that is.

Good luck with your new business.

[bkb0000]

if you do a corp you dont even need quicken- just go down to the secretary of state's office and register. $50something bucks in oregon and you're done.

[exkc135driver]

uv cors yu can just go to offic depot & by a corperate kitt or something like willlmaker and due it yurself ... and yu wil sav mony untill somethin goes rong then yer fkkd -- butt, dont wory cause by nott retainning a aterni yoo saved mony on the beginning thats al that counts rite? After all aternys ar just mony grubbers yu can doo it just as gud as they can, rite??

[bkb0000]

uv cors yu can just go to offic depot & by a corperate kitt or something like willlmaker and due it yurself ... and yu wil sav mony untill somethin goes rong then yer fkkd -- butt, dont wory cause by nott retainning a aterni yoo saved mony on the beginning thats al that counts rite? After all aternys ar just mony grubbers yu can doo it just as gud as they can, rite??

wow..

[warpigM-4]

uv cors yu can just go to offic depot & by a corperate kitt or something like willlmaker and due it yurself ... and yu wil sav mony untill somethin goes rong then yer fkkd -- butt, dont wory cause by nott retainning a aterni yoo saved mony on the beginning thats al that counts rite? After all aternys ar just mony grubbers yu can doo it just as gud as they can, rite??

drinking is bad MMMkay

[Iraqgunz]

FWIW- the store where I purchased my suppressor also used Quicken Willmaker to set up a trust for me, just as they have for many others and it was approved by BATFE. It's not rocket science so I guess my question is what's wrong with it?

[dbrowne1]

FWIW- the store where I purchased my suppressor also used Quicken Willmaker to set up a trust for me, just as they have for many others and it was approved by BATFE. It's not rocket science so I guess my question is what's wrong with it?

There are a lot of things wrong with that:

1. The dealer is probably engaging in the unauthorized practice of law by preparing trust documents for another person.

2. Trusts are a picky and more complicated beast than LLCs. Do you know what the rule against perpetuities is, and how it applies in the trust realm? Does Quicken take into account your particular circumstances and desires and does it anticipate issues down the road?

3. Just because an overworked (non-lawyer) NFA examiner approves your form does not mean your trust couldn't have fatal flaws and possibly not even be a valid entity under your state's laws. Fast forward a couple years and your gun gets stolen or you use it in self-defense, and all of a sudden a whole bunch of lawyers in your home state are taking a real close look at that paperwork. Could cause you some problems.

[dbrowne1]

if you do a corp you dont even need quicken- just go down to the secretary of state's office and register. $50something bucks in oregon and you're done.

Yeah, that's a bad idea too.

In addition to just forming the entity, you need to have governance documents that show your relationship to the company, your authority to use, possess, transport, etc. company property, and you need to carry a copy with you when you're out and about with your NFA items. Otherwise all you have is a form that says the item is owned by "XYZ, LLC" and you have nothing to show that you are in any way affiliated with XYZ, LLC and are allowed to have the items.

My advice is to invest the time and money to set these things up correctly. You only need to do it once and you can sleep a lot easier once it's done right.

[bkb0000]

Yeah, that's a bad idea too.

In addition to just forming the entity, you need to have governance documents that show your relationship to the company, your authority to use, possess, transport, etc. company property, and you need to carry a copy with you when you're out and about with your NFA items. Otherwise all you have is a form that says the item is owned by "XYZ, LLC" and you have nothing to show that you are in any way affiliated with XYZ, LLC and are allowed to have the items.

My advice is to invest the time and money to set these things up correctly. You only need to do it once and you can sleep a lot easier once it's done right.

my advice is to do it as cheaply and easily as you can, because you're already getting ****ed by having to do any of it to begin with. register your corporation as your own name- "David Smith Inc." easy easy.

[TriumphRat675]

my advice is to do it as cheaply and easily as you can

It's not easy, its a shortcut. Why on earth would you take a shortcut when the mere possession of the gun can turn you into a felon if your paperwork isn't filled out correctly? Why would you do that? You wouldn't take a shortcut if you were building a rifle or handloading, would you? You would do it the right way the first time because screwing it up is potentially catastrophic. This is no different.

You're risking your freedom to save some time and money. That's your call. But you need to think about what dbrowne1 said before putting your future on the line so cavalierly.