New AR...What do I start with?

[Failure2Stop]

Paul-

I am a little confused, do you have an A2 upper, like the pics posed by TheLandlord, or do you have a removable carry-handle? By your first post it kinda sounded like you have a removable carry-handle, but since you didn't say anything about it following the other posts I am unsure.

IF you have a removable carry-handle, I would not change the upper receiver. Colts are generally the best solution unless you step up to the next level of uppers. If you do not have an "A3" type upper, I would buy another complete upper of no less quality than LMT, Colt, or BCM- there are other roughly equivalent options as well, but they are the ones that I have personal experience with and recommend.

What type of AR do you have? As in barrel length, stock configuration, etc. What is your intended use of the weapon? Reason being that different setups work better with different items for different applications. For example- if you want an SPR type setup you will probably need a new barrel and handguard, along with other subtle alterations to get the most out of your gun for that application. If you want a handy 0 to 300 meter gun for general purpose use your stock barrel and handguard will probably be just fine, but will benefit from other tweaks. If you want to put a bunch of bullets into a tight little knot at longer distances you will probably be better off with a heavier barrel profile and a dedicated FF system of some kind, and would probably be better off by going with one of the higher quality billet uppers to eek out every little bit of precision possible.

I would caution that insisting on a free-floating setup may not make a whole lot of difference in actual application, then again it may make a significant difference, once again, depending on setup and application. While installing a FF HG won't hurt precision, it might be a lot of $$ for minimal benefit. I would advise actually getting some experience on the gun before you start sinking money into areas of negligable benefit.

A railed HG allows for mounting of various accessories and lights, but most of those things can just as easily be mounted on a gun without rails. Things like lights, optics, slings, and magazines take priority over handguards in my opinion.

[dcmdon]

Before he starts spending more money on the gun, I think its better that he, in order of importance:

1) learn to shoot and maintain it. This is easily solved. The first thing he should to is sign up for an Appleseed shoot. ( www.appleseedinfo.org ) Its dirt cheap at $75 for TWO days of instruction. It will give you the marksmanship skill foundation that everything else is built upon.

Then, if you'd like take some of the more expensive and specialized courses put on by "tactical trainers" in your area.

2) Buy Ammo

3) Buy Mags

2 and 3 should be alternated. You kindof want to begin hoarding (my wife's word) both of them.

The idea of buying an SPR upper (Google it, you'll get lots of good info. He's basicly talking about a scoped 16 to 18 inch gun with a precision bbl that is more accurate than the standard issue AR) is ridiculous when you are a new shooter.

If you're a 4 moa (google "minute of angle" ) shooter and your current gun is a 1.25 moa gun, it makes no sense to spend money to get yourself into a .75 moa gun.

One other thing. Keep in mind that when people test a gun for accuracy, they do it sitting on a bench with sand bags or shot bags to secure themselves. Thats gun testing. It has little bearing on how you need to learn to actually shoot the gun in a meaningful and useful way.

Learning to shoot means being able to shoot standing, kneeling, sitting and prone. It means being able to make use of trees and branches and rocks as braces. After that you learn to shoot while moving. Either way, your current rifle is more accurate than you are, so learn it.

Don

Don

[Paul_F]

Most of what I read is just reaffirming my exact thoughts on this rifle. I am Happy with irons and a standard barrel, But I keep hearing about how I need to switch out my factory sights and lose my 16" 1 in 9 barrel.

Colt defines my rifle as an AR-15 A3, But they also state that is is all A3 parts utilizing A4 sights.

I ordered 5 USGI 30rd mags last week.. I might order one Magpul Mag because they are so incredibly durable, evn though I know I will never put it through the kind of abuse I know it can take. I am going to a local gunshow next weekend, and I plan to stock up on some ammuntion.

I am happy with my rifle as it stands, But I was apparently mislead when I was told that I NEEDED to upgrade. I just ned to get out and dial in my adjustable sights, And break this thing down a bunch of times.

[dcmdon]

So if you are an A3 configuration.

Please confirm that you have a "flat top" reciever with a removable carry handle.

Do look into the appleseed shoots they are the most bang for the buck there is.

Don

[nsabjg]

First get mags, ammo, then a good optic.

[Beat Trash]

Paul,

Others have given you advice, especially as it relates to the DPMS uppers. I agree with what has been posted so far.

The thing that strikes me is your perceived need to change a gun you haven't shot yet. I would STRONGLY recommend you spend some time shooting your rifle as it currently is before you consider changing anything.

Ammo is like the food you eat, "Garbage in, garbage out". Using quality ammunition, test the accuracy of your rifle without free floating the barrel. I own a 20" A2 Colt rifle that with match grade ammunition is about a 1 MOA rifle. This is more than good enough for my needs.

I own a few Colt 6920's and one 6520. None of which are much better than around 1.5 MOA. I don't care. They posses all the accuracy I need for the intended purpose of the carbine.

With some work, it is possible to set up a free floating AR that is a .5 MOA rifle. But to get this in a 16" barreled carbine that is light enough and rugged enough to be used for defensive CQB type of work can present a challenge.

I would first decide what the intended usage for your rifle is going to be. Be honest and ask yourself if you possess the skill to really be able to utilize a sub MOA rifle. What I mean is, given the rifle, do you have the skill to shoot .5" groups at 100 yds, 1" groups at 200 yds? Does it really matter that the gun possess this amount of accuracy or will a rifle/carbine that is a 1.5 MOA gun enough?

These are questions you must ask yourself, as only you can answer them. The gun I would want to shoot a 600 yd Navy match with, and the gun I would carry in my Crown Vic as a uniform patrol LEO are two different animals.

[Paul_F]

So if you are an A3 configuration.

Please confirm that you have a "flat top" reciever with a removable carry handle.

Do look into the appleseed shoots they are the most bang for the buck there is.

Don

Correct, It is a flat top receiver. But with the factory front sight in place Use of any kind of red dot or other optics would be hindered by the front sight, or so I would think. Which is why I would like to leave my factory irons in place.

[Paul_F]

Paul,

Others have given you advice, especially as it relates to the DPMS uppers. I agree with what has been posted so far.

The thing that strikes me is your perceived need to change a gun you haven't shot yet. I would STRONGLY recommend you spend some time shooting your rifle as it currently is before you consider changing anything.

Ammo is like the food you eat, "Garbage in, garbage out". Using quality ammunition, test the accuracy of your rifle without free floating the barrel. I own a 20" A2 Colt rifle that with match grade ammunition is about a 1 MOA rifle. This is more than good enough for my needs.

I own a few Colt 6920's and one 6520. None of which are much better than around 1.5 MOA. I don't care. They posses all the accuracy I need for the intended purpose of the carbine.

With some work, it is possible to set up a free floating AR that is a .5 MOA rifle. But to get this in a 16" barreled carbine that is light enough and rugged enough to be used for defensive CQB type of work can present a challenge.

I would first decide what the intended usage for your rifle is going to be. Be honest and ask yourself if you possess the skill to really be able to utilize a sub MOA rifle. What I mean is, given the rifle, do you have the skill to shoot .5" groups at 100 yds, 1" groups at 200 yds? Does it really matter that the gun possess this amount of accuracy or will a rifle/carbine that is a 1.5 MOA gun enough?

These are questions you must ask yourself, as only you can answer them. The gun I would want to shoot a 600 yd Navy match with, and the gun I would carry in my Crown Vic as a uniform patrol LEO are two different animals.

I really don't want to modify the gun until I have put countless amounts of ammunition through it really, But having heard so many things I should and shouldn't do from other AR owners I felt overwhelmed and figured I might find a straight answer on an AR-15 forum.

I now know exactly what I want to do with this rifle: Shoot it, learn its characteristics.

To go further into your question...Do I think I posses the skills to keep 1 inch grouping at 200yds? No, Not on a rifle I have not mastered.

I believe I stated before in an earlier post, I have fired AR-15s before. Quite a few times actually. But I have never owned one until recently. Even on an AR-15 I was unfamiliar with I was still able to keep decent grouping at 100yds.

Again, I just need to learn MY rifle first. Its like buying performance parts for a car you haven't even driven yet. Just cause you drove an identical car and loved it doesn't mean you will yield the same results and satisfaction on your own vehicle.

I also feel like I may have insulted the quality of DPMS products.... But that is not my intentions, I just dont want to ditch my colt upper and have a frankenrifle.

[Beat Trash]

I now know exactly what I want to do with this rifle: Shoot it, learn its characteristics.

Again, I just need to learn MY rifle first.

I also feel like I may have insulted the quality of DPMS products.... But that is not my intentions, I just dont want to ditch my colt upper and have a frankenrifle.

This simple logic makes sense. But many trees die each year to print magazines devoted to the ideal that one must alter and add crap to a AR15, must add crap, must add crap...

DPMS is what it is. What it is not is a Colt...

Enjoy getting to know your new rifle.

[dcmdon]

Paul,
you sound like a smart man, able to weed through lots of internet quality advice and extract the pearls.

Like you said. Shoot the gun.

I used to be involved with people who modified Subaru STIs. There were kids who didnt know how to heel and toe downshift installing suspension kits.

My advice on those forums was the same as here. First spend money to fix the weakest link. The shooter/driver. The difference on the car side is that I have some legitimate expertise, having raced cars and bikes for 15 yrs and achieving some level of skill.

When it comes to shooting, I know how much I dont know. There are guys here who have forgoten more than we will ever know. Listen to them.

And go shooting.

Don

p.s. and my internet quality advice regarding an optic is to hold off. Wait until you know what you want. Wait until you can hit a man sized target consistently out at 300 yards offhand. Wait until you know how to use a sling.

When you do get an optic, be aware that by using the correct height mount, you can get the dot/crosshairs up above the front iron sight.