Engraving - I'm writing a letter to the BATFE

[Cameron]

After reading the applicable ATF rules and regs and listening to the arguments of those who engrave and those who don't, I have decided to write a letter to the BATFE and ask for a clarification that perhaps all members of M4C will derive a benefit from.

I am open to specific requests for the question we will be asking, and where or to whom you think the letter should be addressed. The technical office vs. the field office perhaps?

I am going to ask specifically in regard to a Form 1 "Application to Make or Register a Firearm" and specifically when the "maker" is a Trust, which is the route that I use for my SBRs.

Let me know what you guys think.

Cameron

[SHIVAN]

What could you need clarification on??

[Cameron]

There are two sides to the argument on here and it appears neither have been satisfied with the answers available to date. Perhaps we can get clarity that would satisfy everyone?

[SHIVAN]

There only exist "two sides" on the internet. The ATF has been clear that they require engraving of the part with your information if you are the "Manufacturer" listed on the Form 1.

[eodinert]

What exactly needs clarification? I thought it was perfectly clear... well, at least after they corrected themselves.

[Cameron]

So my call to the field office today where an agent told me no need to engrave as the receiver is already engraved by the manufacturer, and that the identifying information recorded on my Form 1 is the original manufacturers marking and serial # on the receiver.

I asked if I could get a written response to that and he said to write a letter with any questions and they will respond in writing.

Field Agent says "no, you don't need to engrave"
Shivan says "yes you must engrave"

He mentioned that I should read Instructions for 2.h. on the Form 1

Serial Numbers and other Markings. If an existing firearm is being modified into an NFA firearm, enter the existing serial number of the firearm into item 4g and the name and address of the original manufacturer into item 4a. Do not Alter or Modify the existing Serial Number. If the NFA firearm is being made from parts, your name and address are to be entered into 4a and a serial number you create is to be entered into item 4g.

He said if I was "modifying" an existing firearm, then the current markings are all that are needed.

Cameron

[mtk]

For the love of God, read the Federal Regulations!

Engraving is required, period.

The regulations are written in plain English and leave no abiguity on the subject. Non-licensees (i.e. Form 1 people) are defined as "makers" and licensees (FFL/SOT's) are defined as "manufacturers," with the two terms being defined to mean the "manufacturing" (in the conventional, Webster's Dictionary definition of the word) of a title II firearm Both are required to engrave their name, city, and state on the weapon.

The word of a Field Agent doesn't trump the published Federal Regulations on the subject.

Anyone who says engraving a Form 1 weapon is not required, frankly, can't read.

This isn't a situation like "HK push pins," where none of the specifics and nuances are written down anywhere for reference. This is a cut-and-dried issue right out of the books.

Rather than wasting your time writing letters, spend five minutes with Google and read the regs for yourself and all your questions will be answered.

[SHIVAN]

This is going to go a few more posts...and if you don't get it, you don't get it.

The Form 1 is a permission slip to MANUFACTURER a Title I gun in to a Title II gun. Period.

Without an approved Form 1, the act of placing an SBR upper on a Title I lower MAKES it an illegal Title II gun. Or contraband. Barrel shorter then 16" and OAL less then 26". If you get the approved Form 1, the ATF has granted you MANUFACTURING rights for an SBR.

Assembly of the SBR upper with the approved lower = MANUFACTURED SBR. What is the proper name for the Form 1??

"Application to Make and Register a Firearm"

"The undersigned hereby makes application, as required by Sections 5821 and 5822 of the National Fireams Act, Title 26 U.S.C., Chapter 53, to make and register the firearm described below."

Instruction 1i. "Make. The term "make", and the various derivatives of such word, shall include manufacturing (other than by one qualified to engage in such business under the NFA), putting together, altering, any combination of these, or otherwise producing a firearm."

YOU need to mark it with engraving of your information from the app, because the NFA or GCA says a maker shall mark the firearm with their information. Since the item was already a firearm, and not a random piece of aluminum or steel, I leave the original serial intact, per the instructions and ADD my information as the person who altered/made the Title II gun, per the standard ROE for "making a gun".

Which is, in fact, the most conservative interpretation of the law, and one that does not open me up to undue scrutiny.

[SHIVAN]

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 27, Volume 2]
[Revised as of April 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 27CFR479.102]
[Page 188-189]
TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS
CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 479--MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS--Table of Contents

Subpart G--Registration and Identification of Firearms

Sec. 479.102 How must firearms be identified?

(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must
legibly identify the firearm as follows:
(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise
conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual
serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not
susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must
not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For
firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002,
the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number
must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller
than 1/16 inch; and
(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise
conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain
additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not
susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For
firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002,
the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information
must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information
includes:
(i) The model, if such designation has been made;
(ii) The caliber or gauge;
(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when
applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;
(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State
(or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer
maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the
firearm; and
[[Page 189]]
(v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in
which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized
abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of
business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see
Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.
(b) The depth of all markings required by this section will be
measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges.
The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1) of this
section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of
the character impression bottoms (bases).
(c) The Director may authorize other means of identification upon
receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate,
showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder
the effective administration of this part.
(d) In the case of a destructive device, the Director may authorize
other means of identifying that weapon upon receipt of a letter
application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that engraving,
casting, or stamping (impressing) such a weapon would be dangerous or
impracticable.
(e) A firearm frame or receiver that is not a component part of a
complete weapon at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed
of by you must be identified as required by this section.
(f)(1) Any part defined as a machine gun, muffler, or silencer for
the purposes of this part that is not a component part of a complete
firearm at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you
must be identified as required by this section.
(2) The Director may authorize other means of identification of
parts defined as machine guns other than frames or receivers and parts
defined as mufflers or silencers upon receipt of a letter application
from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other identification
is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this
part.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The government lawyers expect that you will be able to comprehend two instructions. 1) Do not obliterate a serial # of an existing firearm (Title I), it's a felony to do so. 2) Make sure that all the information above is marked properly on the weapon. Whether you do it, or only add the part that is missing -- which happens to be your information from the Form 1 app.