Forum Moderation

[exkc135driver]

If anyone else would like to make a comment regarding moderation of the website, please go through the proper channels, i.e. pm site staff or post in the Site Suggestions/Comments thread.

I have a question/comment but cannot find the "Site Suggestions/Comments" thread. My computer-fu may not be the best, but I am unable to find a thread with that title. Where might I find it?

[NCPatrolAR]

I have a question/comment but cannot find the "Site Suggestions/Comments" thread. My computer-fu may not be the best, but I am unable to find a thread with that title. Where might I find it?

Just make a seperate thread in this forum or post it in this thread.

[Buck]

As one who engages in an occasional discussion here on M4C and I am sure who was the catalyst for this thread let me chime in… I have no problem if you disagree with me, or each other in a thread… The issue at hand was very simple… A forum member was concerned about a new piece of kit that had been developed for use by law enforcement by a subsidiary of the Taser corporation and posed that he was scared by it with no details… I am very familiar with this product… The original poster then referenced a three part video in his post put out by the Taser corporation CEO that touched on a number of subjects including the X26 Taser, crime scene management software, use of force trends, and the product in question…

When I engaged in the conversation I simply asked the original poster what he was scared of… He responded to simply watch the video… Again, I am already familiar with the product in question, but I watched the section of the video about the new product incase I missed something, I did not, and then I simply asked again, Ok I watched it, What are you scared of???

Some time later a new poster chimes in that since I did not watch the entire one hour video before posting that I was full of bullshit… Another moderator saw this and took action… Infractions add up and as I understand it he was automatically banned by our server since he had already received several infractions from posts in other threads…

On another note, I find the entire “Gee I hope I don’t get banned for posting in this thread” notion odd… Where does all that come from??? I have no knowledge of anyone being banned from this site for disagreeing… The strength of M4C is the ability to have a discussion… If some wander into deep water over their heads, and they try to derail the conversation with personal attacks, that is how you may end up being moderated, but not for simply expressing an opinion based of personal experience or fact… If the anarchists of the AR world find this to constraining, then hey, it’s a big internet out there , go find somewhere else you like better…

B

[ZDL]

As one who engages in an occasional discussion here on M4C and I am sure who was the catalyst for this thread let me chime in… I have no problem if you disagree with me, or each other in a thread… The issue at hand was very simple… A forum member was concerned about a new piece of kit that had been developed for use by law enforcement by a subsidiary of the Taser corporation and posed that he was scared by it with no details… I am very familiar with this product… The original poster then referenced a three part video in his post put out by the Taser corporation CEO that touched on a number of subjects including the X26 Taser, crime scene management software, use of force trends, and the product in question…

When I engaged in the conversation I simply asked the original poster what he was scared of… He responded to simply watch the video… Again, I am already familiar with the product in question, but I watched the section of the video about the new product incase I missed something, I did not, and then I simply asked again, Ok I watched it, What are you scared of???

Some time later a new poster chimes in that since I did not watch the entire one hour video before posting that I was full of bullshit… Another moderator saw this and took action… Infractions add up and as I understand it he was automatically banned by our server since he had already received several infractions from posts in other threads…

On another note, I find the entire “Gee I hope I don’t get banned for posting in this thread” notion odd… Where does all that come from??? I have no knowledge of anyone being banned from this site for disagreeing… The strength of M4C is the ability to have a discussion… If some wander into deep water over their heads, and they try to derail the conversation with personal attacks, that is how you may end up being moderated, but not for simply expressing an opinion based of personal experience or fact… If the anarchists of the AR world find this to constraining, then hey, it’s a big internet out there , go find somewhere else you like better…

B

I got dinged for calling Obama a pussy..... I had seen and continue to see him called as such and/or worse on this forum. The reason given was "it's inappropriate to call the POTUS a pussy". There wasn't a "on this forum" disclaimer but was instead was a blanket statement formed in a way one would deliver such a lesson to a child. I was pissed, said my peace, moderator didn't respond to me.. We've moved on. I think as long as everyone understands it is what it is and as you said "its a big internet" we can all get along. Shit load of alpha mentalities on here. Sometimes the dick measuring contests get out of hand... on everyone's part. I've been posting less as the topics are either Obama this, tinfoil hat that, etc of late.

Didn't mean to air my dirty laundry here but felt it was relevant to the conversation. No hard feelings all the way around. The ding came around a time when said moderator was having to deal with a lot of different morons on here all at once. Keep it relative folks. I'm sure all of us (ok most of us) would get along just fine in person. The internet is strange.


EDIT* I reviewed the issue I referenced in this thread. It was a warning; not any points. Which means, I probably made it a bigger deal than it was worth since I can't read and ASSumed it was points. Moving on.

[Jay Cunningham]

M4C employs an automated disciplinary system. It uses a points system to give automated bans based on accrued Infraction points.

Here is a list and brief explanation of the current categories, in order of severity:


Advertising in Discussion Forums (Includes Sigs and Titles)
Pretty self-explanatory.

Baiting / Bickering / Instigating
This will probably be the most commonly issued infraction.

Excessive Profanity
We allow cursing to an extent but when it goes WAY overboard this is appropriate.

Running up Post Count to Access Restricted Forums
Useless posts to access Member Sales or LEO forums.

Sales Forum Rules Violation / Ad Stomping
Violation of the Posting Rules for the Marketplace. Ad stomping is when useless negative commentary is posted in an ad.

Spammed Advertisements
Self-explanatory. True spammers are usually hit-and-run and will be perma-banned anyway.

Derogatory Comments / Personal Attacks
Includes inappropriate comments of a racial, religious or sexual nature - consider a warning first.

Failure to Contact the Mfgr / Dealer before Posting Issues
Self-explanatory - consider a warning first.

Failure to Disclose Relationships with Dealers / Manufacturers
Self-explanatory - consider a warning first.

Posting or Linking to Inappropriate Content
This includes pornography, but can be other disgusting or nonsensical content - consider a warning first.

Posting Personal Information without Permission
Self-explanatory - consider a warning first.

Disrespect to an Industry Professional / SME
Subjective and should usually be issued as a warning first.

Disrespect to Moderators / Staff
Subjective and should usually be issued as a warning first. This covers disrespect toward Mods / Staff as individuals and as a group.

Suggesting Illegal Activities Including Modifications to Firearms
A severe Infraction that will automatically generate a minimum 10 day ban.

Threats Against Individuals or Government Entities
A severe Infraction that will automatically generate a minimum 10 day ban.


Warnings do not generate Points, while Infractions always generate Points (that expire) and serious Infractions will generate more Points that expire after a longer duration. At certain thresholds these Points generate automatic disciplinary actions:


20 points 3 Day Ban
30 points 10 Day Ban
45 points 30 Day Ban


Permanent banning is left to Staff members after full consideration of the auto-banned individual's actions, and what they may or may not contribute otherwise. As it stands now, the maximum ban time that a user can earn through Infractions is 30 days.

This system keeps a reasonably detailed record that will allow (at a glance) other Staff and Mods to see what problems there may have been with a particular member in the past. It is expected that Moderators give a Warning first (when appropriate) before jumping straight to an Infraction. Obviously there will be times when going directly to an Infraction is the right way to do things. It is always preferable that a member edit and correct their own post rather than a Mod do it for them, if practical. Generating a Warning or Infraction automatically sends a PM to the member referencing the post in question.

It is expected that the Staff and Moderators be technical and professional at all times, polite and respectful, and help make M4C a place where people can disagree without it resulting in personal vendetta.

[HAIL-CAESAR]

I got dinged for calling Obama a pussy..... I had seen and continue to see him called as such and/or worse on this forum. The reason given was "it's inappropriate to call the POTUS a pussy".

You think that is bad? I was banned for a week and threatened with a permanent ban for this on another site.

OP: "G. Gordon Liddy was talking on his show today about the Supreme Court ruling on Heller. It was a very interesting discussion."

ME: (next post) " I met G.G. Liddy at a luncheon in D.C. many years back. I had the pleasure to talk to him for a half hour. He is an incredibly intellectual man. I have listen to his show for many years and always like to hear him speak on a subject. You need to read his book "WILL". It is a page turner."

The tread was immediately locked.

And I was sent the PM slap. I inquired why? What did I do? (return PM)

Mod in PM: "Liddy is a POS ex-con. You of all people should know that. I despise the idiot and will not allow any talk about him. He talked of shooting LEO and you support him? Maybe that says something about you too. I locked the thread and will issue you a permanent ban if you bring Liddy up again. That is my prerogative as a Moderator and is my duty as an Administrator." (Exact copy/paste)

The Mod is not LE, I am. This was a pistol board. And in a political forum dealing with 2nd Amendment Rights and general gun law discussion.

And as I went back and looked at my previous posts, hundreds (yes I mean hundreds) of my post were deleted by the Mod.

[HowardCohodas]

I was threatened with being banned in another forum. I protested to the owner, proving the mod had lied. No sympathy. I pushed back. I got banned. The funny thing is, the mod even set up his server so my IP was rejected so I could not even look at the public spaces. Like that's going to stop anyone who knows even a smidgen about IT. I was still insulted and felt I had been done an injustice. That soon wore off.

Bottom line. Although not quite what MLK said, but in my own words. If it's not worth dying for, it's not worth living. Overly dramatic for a forum membership, but you get the point.

[NoBody]

I wonder about the whole point system. Is M4C turning legalistic now??? I just had an auction on eBay cancelled because of a "policy" violation. I failed to use the word "Fits" in the title of holster auction (e.g., holster 'Fits' Glock...).

I hope we don't let things get as legalistic as eBay has become. M4C is an awesome source of information because of the quality. However, if fear causes members to keep quiet then the quality will suffer. I too have noticed over the past few months what seems like heavy-handedness or abusive attitudes by some moderators. But as is often the case, that's from an outsider's point of view as we (members) rarely know the entire inside story.

Two thoughts come to mind in regard to the moderators; we must respect the position, but the individual must still earn respect from the members. Second, perception is reality. Moderators need to be cognizant of how their actions may be perceived.

NB

[Army Chief]

I wonder about the whole point system. Is M4C turning legalistic now??? I just had an auction on eBay cancelled because of a "policy" violation. I failed to use the word "Fits" in the title of holster auction (e.g., holster 'Fits' Glock...).

I hope we don't let things get as legalistic as eBay has become. M4C is an awesome source of information because of the quality. However, if fear causes members to keep quiet then the quality will suffer. I too have noticed over the past few months what seems like heavy-handedness or abusive attitudes by some moderators. But as is often the case, that's from an outsider's point of view as we (members) rarely know the entire inside story.

Two thoughts come to mind in regard to the moderators; we must respect the position, but the individual must still earn respect from the members. Second, perception is reality. Moderators need to be cognizant of how their actions may be perceived.

NB

A masterful summation.

AC

[Gutshot John]

The thing about the "law" and legalism is that it's clear, it's obvious and anyone can see what standards they must adhere to.

Every community has laws in order to assure proper functioning, the difference between m4carbine and other boards is that those laws are clearly spelled out and not subject to the capricious whims of a moderator.

In doing so, they offer far more protection to the average board member than the moderators who might otherwise engage in the heavy-handedness we see on other boards that shall remain unnamed.