Surefire Can = $$$

[SHIVAN]

35.2 ounces is VERY heavy. I think my YHM 308 Phantom is 25.8 ounces, and it is warrantied to handle any 30 caliber, including magnums.

[C4IGrant]

35.2 ounces is VERY heavy. I think my YHM 308 Phantom is 25.8 ounces, and it is warrantied to handle any 30 caliber, including magnums.

So does the YHM 308 can have less blow back than the SF 308 can you had?


C4

[SHIVAN]

So does the YHM 308 can have less blow back than the SF 308 can you had?

In my unscientific opinion? Yes, the blowback was almost non-existent, even on a 13" AR-10 with the Phantom.

The SF pushed more back to my face, as well as a lot more back to the action. It dried the action out in very few shots, then dumped more gunk back after it was dried out.

[C4IGrant]

In my unscientific opinion? Yes, the blowback was almost non-existent, even on a 13" AR-10 with the Phantom.

The SF pushed more back to my face, as well as a lot more back to the action. It dried the action out in very few shots, then dumped more gunk back after it was dried out.

Interesting.


C4

[SHIVAN]

Though no one has metered one that I have seen published, I suspect that the SF 762K can is probably quieter then the current 308 Phantom. I believe that YHM had to make some minor changes to the bore diameter to keep bullet impacts down from the original SoundTech design.

However, based on informal range shooting, the early models I have are at least as quiet in comparison to an SWR Omega 30, AAC Cyclones and AAC 762SS models.

The newer 308 Phantoms did not meter very well in recent testing.

[C4IGrant]

Though no one has metered one that I have seen published, I suspect that the SF 762K can is probably quieter then the current 308 Phantom. I believe that YHM had to make some minor changes to the bore diameter to keep bullet impacts down from the original SoundTech design.

However, based on informal range shooting, the early models I have are at least as quiet in comparison to an SWR Omega 30, AAC Cyclones and AAC 762SS models.

The newer 308 Phantoms did not meter very well in recent testing.

Roger that. I will be picking up a SF 308 can in the near future for a couple different projects. I will also pick up an AAC (don't know which one yet) so I can do some side by side testing.


C4

[HPLLC]

All the really major silencer manufacturers that makes welded silencers use EDM bores. KAC, AAC, and Surefire included. The reason is weldments warp. The only way to achieve an absolutely perfect bore is to anneal the weldment and EDM machine the bore, post annealing. Then of course the barrel thread and all elements of mounting system need to be very close to perfect for ideal circumstances to be achieved.

Ops is a smaller company from what I understand and chooses not to EDM (as far as I know), but has good results in general due to what must be a very tightly controlled process of manufacturing that has been perfected long ago. At a sniper competition last year I talked to a competitor from the 4th ID who said, "My rifle shoots better with the sound suppressor, so I always shoot with the silencer attached." Another unnamed competitor had the same to say about his MK12 SPR and it's Ops can. Those were the only Ops users at the competition. So I guess if you find the same and fall into the same camp, POI shift won't really matter much.

The idea that KAC has poor POI shift probably comes from barrels that are either too light profiled to take the 24 ounces of total system weight without negative harmonic penalties, or do not have concentric threads. The silencers won a contract that specified 1.5MOA shift and I believe they won a second contract also, specifying 1MOA. Colt military barrels have nice threads. I just pulled my flash hider tonight and shot my companies shitty looking Bushwacker next to a guy with his M4QD SS NT4. The guy shooting was firing controlled pairs inside 2-5inches at 20 meters FAST. I mean twice as fast as mine. So weight may be a benefit in some cases, as obviously his shooting performance seems to attest. His weapon had a heavier barrel, and the KAC silencer and maybe the weight actually helped him shoot better- faster. His weapon lacked muzzle rise (whether due to him and his shooting technique and physical properties, or it's own characteristics). It jumped maybe 3" on target in full muzzle rise, the reason I could tell, being we were both using red lasers on our PEQ15's (me just to see how badly my muzzle was rising in comparison) him out of preference. My silencer was quieter, but I'd probably have traded it for his. The M4QD is really a nice product. It is nice to be able to conveniently snap the silencer on to use it and remove it when storing or using the weapon with the suppressor is not desired. At the end of the magazine I fired, my silencer had actually become harder to remove as I had hand tightened it and it now required the 7mm socket to remove. Good that it wasn't loosening in use, but obviously requiring a tool now to remove.

POI shift characteristics stem from the relationship of weight added and harmonics changed in the barrel, free-bore velocity boost imparted to the bullet inside the suppressor bore, and concentricity (or lack therof) between the various apertures of the suppressor bore and the host weapon bore. To guaranty 1MOA is impossible in a world where barrel threads can be .010" out of concentric with the bore without adding a disclaimer. Another consequence that can be observed is some silencers with asymmetric baffle systems can even impart slight instability to the bullet, causing groups to open, and parasitic drag induced to cause noticeable negative changes to bullet trajectory at extended range.

I had back luck with an issued original non SSNT4 model years ago, but then, the barrel I was using at the time was on a personal upper I brought to Iraq (a while back you could get away with that.) I have the upper and now that I have some of my own companies EDM bored silencers, I know that the barrel threads are slightly out. So there's my problem. The barrel thread caused the shift. The silencer I had exhibited a tendancy to spin on the mount about 10-20 degrees due to some slop tolerance at the cam-out notch, and that caused it to shoot arcs. VERY ANNOYING PROBLEM TO HAVE. I'm sure if it had been a good barrel thread I probably wouldn't have noticed that, as the arc wouldn't have existed, or wouldn't have been large at all, inside a 1MOA POI shift. That weapon was a heavy precision settup, and had probably 2" of muzzle rise at 100meters.


The EDM bored silencers should all perform the same. Any difference is either a construction design flaw, QC issue, barrel thread issue, or the result of weight added to the host weapon barrel. The 16 ounce flyweight SF product will not have the same negative penalty to harmonics as a 22ounce M4QD, but then the M4QD is a pretty tough silencer; while possibly tougher than SF is disputable and a test would need to be performed to begin to suggest an answer; tougher than AAC is probably a given as it's made with inconel 625 tubing that simply has stronger high temp properties than 316L stainless tubing. *

In addition the bore of the KAC product is .300" straight, meaning it's going to suffer unacceptable baffle strikes almost never, while the older Surefire K model will suffer them sooner under harsh use and the AAC M42000 will also be more likely to have issues, as it's bore is tighter.

The other thing to discuss is frequency shift. The weapons sound signature varies in frequency, so efficiently shifting frequency with a small device dealing with one frequency into the human inaudible range (the idea of this technology) is impossible. So anyone who says their suppressor uses frequency shift is most likely trying to impress you. All suppressors shift some frequencies. Some probably better than others, but hitting every frequency perfectly and canceling it out is just not possible even if you isolate a barrel length and select a round as controls. Even if it were possible, a device designed for one round and barrel length would not work for a different bullet weight and barrel length. Obviously to say "major players" and then look at a surefire silencer coming from what's obviously a "major player" it's not even very likely the silencer is made exactly the same every time, with dozens of spacers and baffles manually welded together, each with ports on the circumference probably changing orientation slightly during the build process. Does this effect sound from silencer to silencer much? Probably not, because it's really more of a pressure reducing device that controls the release of gas than it is a Buck Rodgers 24th and a half century frequency modulator. To represent frequency shift as an engineered solution and perfected science to be applied to firearms silencers is just good bull shit.

*TOUGHER DEFINED HERE AS: Able to withstand more abusive fire schedules. AKA more rounds fired rapidly prior to an incident that could be construed as a failure of the unit.

[SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS]

It makes me jealous to see so many wonderful cans on here. I've been to Texas and Arizona gunshops in the past and couldn't help but drool on the cans. I am in LE here in NY and trying to research how I can legally purchase one but laws seem to be confusing and contradictory. State law says we're exempt from all restrictions including machine guns but an ATF agent told me we can only own SBR and SBS..I don't recall cans being mentioned..this was around 2 years or so ago..Unfortunately, it seems I'll be stymied until I can convince the wife to move to a Constitution friendly state..which me be a very long time


P.S. Anyone have an idea if Surefire makes a mount for a metric FAL?

[TY44934]

interesting.