Living trust question

[rparker762]

I am setting up a living trust with Quicken Willmaker Pro 2009 in anticipation of purchasing a silencer for my P22. My question is, now it may be dumb but I don't know so I'm gonna ask. Do I need to buy the silencer before filling in the description or can I put in a general description or do I leave it blank? I'm thinking I need to set up the trust before attempting to buy anything but I am not sure. Also, anyone know a place in AZ to purchase a silencer? Any good shop recomendations?

[markm]

You need to set up the trust before or at the time of purchase. I added the NFA items to my trust and sent the Sch A in with my papers. Although people make the valid point that the trust doesn't own them until approval. In either case, BATF seemed to be satisfied with what I sent in.

[jack crab]

I just did this using Willmaker. I set up the trust and included some books as the initial trust property, no Schedule A with any NFA items. Then, I went to the dealer, filled out the Form 4 and provided a copy of the trust all to go to BATFE. The Form 4, when it comes back, is proof that the trust purchased and now owns the suppressor. No need to amend the trust or Schedule A as you purchase future NFA items.

[markm]

No need to amend the trust or Schedule A as you purchase future NFA items.

Although you may be correct, we're dealing with the ATF. And you can't get the same answer twice from two different contacts.

I've seen several reports of folks who have had requests from ATF to send in their Sch A when they didn't include it in the original app packet. It's caused them delays in approval.

[JSandi]

http://blog.princelaw.com/2009/3/3/c...-gun-nfa-trust

[jack crab]

Although you may be correct, we're dealing with the ATF. And you can't get the same answer twice from two different contacts.

I've seen several reports of folks who have had requests from ATF to send in their Sch A when they didn't include it in the original app packet. It's caused them delays in approval.

I agree with that. The Sched. A is part of the trust declaration. ATF wants the entire declaration of trust which would include the Sched. A.

Some people have tried to send only the certification of trust, kind of the mini version of the declaration. The reports are that they are being delayed or denied because ATF wants to see the entire trust document, not the summary.

My point is that the original poster said he was creating his trust by transferring into the trust a partial description of a suppressor he hoped to own in the future.

Two problems. First, he does not own the property he is placing in trust. Second, he is attempting to transfer into the trust a suppressor not in the national registry under his name and without paying the transfer tax.

I am suggesting that a good course of action is to create the trust by transferring some piece of property you already own such as a tennis racket or something. I used my Theodore Roosevelt book collection to have something big, discrete and unmistakably identifiable.

Then, once the trust is in existence, I, in my capacity as trustee, go to my dealer and buy the suppressor. The Form 4 shows that the trust bought and owns the suppressor.

No need, and in fact probably a bad idea, to bring the new suppressor home and amend the declaration of trust including the Schedule A to now list the new suppressor.

Bad idea for two reasons. Again, you, in your capacity as creator of the trust, are amending the trust by transferring property you do not own, because the new suppressor is already owned by the trust per the Form 4. Second, you are attempting to transfer a suppressor, although you don't individually own it, to the trust without the transfer tax payment.