Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 146

Thread: Guns are dangerous. Federal AE223BK Kaboom.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,133
    Feedback Score
    0

    Guns are dangerous. Federal AE223BK Kaboom.

    Was shooting yesterday at an indoor range. Upper was a 12.5bbl Noveske, with 10k+ rounds already through it. KAC FH, KAC Upper, KAC URX, PMAGs.

    I was shooting unsuppressed, semi-auto, with recently purchased XM193 from Recob's Target Shop (found that ammo in the popular ammo finding thread).

    I was on approximately round 20-23 of a full 30 round magazine, and I pulled the trigger and felt an extreme GUSH of air on my chest/abdomen/legs. The magazine was literally SHOT out of my magwell, and the bolt was stuck.

    The Upper came off the lower with ease, we eventually were able to remove the BCG out of the upper, the case was stuck to the extractor. The most unfortunate part was that half of the case is still stuck in the chamber.

    No injuries, no blood, just a little dirtier than usual From what I've been told, this will be an easy fix.

    To Summarize, after the kaboom, this is what seems have survived:

    Bolt Carrier
    Upper
    Lower
    Pmag
    Bolt

    What didn't survive:
    Extract has been bent
    o-ring blown in half


    Will be calling Federal on Monday to see how to handle the rest of the ammo.


    Here are some shitty pictures, im no photographer:


    Upper Used:







    BCG Used:





    Bolt:




    You can still see half of the case stuck in the chamber:



    Bent extractor:




    Ruptured Case:


    Last edited by Derek_Connor; 04-26-09 at 10:10.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    47
    Feedback Score
    0
    I'm now a little less happy about the 2000 rounds of XM193 I ordered last week. :x

    I hope that this is one time thing, and that you're alright.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    105
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Wow. Glad you're okay.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Urban Cessmaze
    Posts
    2,322
    Feedback Score
    12 (100%)

    Unhappy

    Dittos on the "OK physically" part! Is that a recent batch of the 'black box' 193's? I've bought a few rounds of it recently, with the intentions of testing it. Now I'M not so sure...
    - Either you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution or you're just part of the landscape - Sam Vincent (Robert DeNiro) in, "Ronin" -

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    AZ-Waging jihad against crappy AR's.
    Posts
    20,015
    Feedback Score
    80 (100%)
    Any ammo can malfunction and have problems. The issue is when it starts to happen with frequency.





    "A firearm should be considered a fighting weapon first. Any other use should be considered a bonus." -Me

    Click here for Semper Paratus Arms AR15 armorer schedule/locations.

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Multiple armorer certifications

    I am affiliated and work with SIONICS Weapon Systems in Tucson, AZ

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    737
    Feedback Score
    0
    Thanks for posting this. I'm glad that you weren't injured. Have you examined the length of the barrel for any abnormalities? Did the round before the kaboom display any difference in recoil/muzzle blast/function? That is, do you think it could have been a squib?

    Any chance you have a friend with a better camera who could take some better close-up shots of the case head? Also, can you post the lot number of the XM193 involved?

    Thanks,

    Molon
    Last edited by Molon; 04-25-09 at 09:39.
    Member of the General Population

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,368
    Feedback Score
    32 (100%)
    Indeed, I am glad you were not harmed!

    Are you planning on reusing the bolt? Relegating it to spare status? Or letting someone do NDI testing on it?

    The geek in me would be very interested in having someone like Ned Christiansen look over the bolt and inspect the chamber.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,133
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by SeriousStudent View Post
    Indeed, I am glad you were not harmed!

    Are you planning on reusing the bolt? Relegating it to spare status? Or letting someone do NDI testing on it?

    The geek in me would be very interested in having someone like Ned Christiansen look over the bolt and inspect the chamber.
    Yeah, I am feeling more lucky as the day goes on. That could have been alot worse.

    Here is the ammo I was shooting:

    (http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/4,2341.html)

    I am going to send it to steve to get the case out. I was planning on scrapping the bolt, but now that you said it, having it sent out for testing would be interesting.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,133
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Molon View Post
    Thanks for posting this. I'm glad that you weren't injured. Have you examined the length of the barrel for any abnormalities? Did the round before the kaboom display any difference in recoil/muzzle blast/function? That is, do you think it could have been a squib?

    Any chance you have a friend with a better camera who could take some better close-up shots of the case head? Also, can you post the lot number of the XM193 involved?

    Thanks,

    Molon

    Molon,

    Good questions - I did no more than a bore scope after the incident, couldn't find anything "out of the norm"

    Now that you ask, I do remember the couple of rounds before that having less recoil? But I also remember readjusting my feet as well for a wider stance (lanes are small in this range) so it could have been just myself feeling more stable? Hard to say with any certainty.

    I'll get some better pictures of the ammo and case head..

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    71
    Feedback Score
    0
    Can you post the lot number of the ammo?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    GP Oregon
    Posts
    1,998
    Feedback Score
    0
    Make sure the barrel extension is not cracked, it may not be obvious until you take the barrel out of the upper.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Lexington, SC
    Posts
    2,182
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    I've never felt the need to High Pressure test my own bolts! You really are a do-it-yourself kind of guy, huh?



    Glad your OK! I'm interested to see how everything fares after inspection, and what Federal has to say!


    -RD62

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5,818
    Feedback Score
    0
    I'm glad things didn't go sideways and you're ok bro. Hope you can finagle a new upper out of this.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,133
    Feedback Score
    0
    Sorry for the delay, after I went through this ammo, to my dismay, it does NOT have a Lake City stamp on the casing. I'll get some pictures here soon.

    Something is fishy, as Recob's had informed me lastnight after I spoke to him that this was indeed, "XM193" and not "PD", etc..

    And to be clear, Noveske didn't assemble this upper for me, so they have nothing to do w/this situation.

    This barrel/upper receiver have a shit ton of rounds through it, all knowing that that little lip had existed. I doubt the receiver feedramps has anything to do w/this situation though based on the amount of rounds i've had through this combo. But ya never know..





    Camera sucks, cannot get a good picture of the head stamp.

    On the top it is ––––-" F C"

    on the bottom it is ––––––" 223 o REM "

    while im no ammo buff, that doesn't sound like real 193 to me.
    Last edited by Derek_Connor; 04-25-09 at 14:28.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    AZ-Waging jihad against crappy AR's.
    Posts
    20,015
    Feedback Score
    80 (100%)
    FC is Federal Cartridge. There is a slight chance that you had a headspace issue since you have said that there are a shit ton of rounds through the upper and barrel. I would clean the weapon and see if you can get a headspace gage and check it.

    That being said it is more than likely an ammo problem. Like I said ANY ammo can have issues. Military ammo gets reclassed quite frequently due to malfunctions or related issues.





    "A firearm should be considered a fighting weapon first. Any other use should be considered a bonus." -Me

    Click here for Semper Paratus Arms AR15 armorer schedule/locations.

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Multiple armorer certifications

    I am affiliated and work with SIONICS Weapon Systems in Tucson, AZ

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,441
    Feedback Score
    0
    What usually happens in cases like this? Does the Ammo manufacturer pay to rebuild the upper? Do they send it off to a third party to determine what went wrong? Does it depend on manufacturer what kind of service you get?
    Seals lay around on the beach and eat fish. SEALs go to nice locations at all hours and burn shit down. - IraqGunz

    We guard our money with well armed men and our children with "gun free zone" signs. That's the priorities of the damned.- WillBrink

    If Obama had a city......it would look just like Detroit. -Jaxman7

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,133
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    FC is Federal Cartridge. There is a slight chance that you had a headspace issue since you have said that there are a shit ton of rounds through the upper and barrel. I would clean the weapon and see if you can get a headspace gage and check it.
    Roger, will report back on the results.


    That being said it is more than likely an ammo problem. Like I said ANY ammo can have issues. Military ammo gets reclassed quite frequently due to malfunctions or related issues.

    Agreed that any ammo can have issues, if I can come out of this with a still decently used barrel and just have to up the cost of a new bolt, i'll be extremely happy.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,043
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)
    Derek,

    Glad you're alright brother.

    Keep us updated on the status of everything.

    Will be interesting to hear what the ammo manufacturer has to say.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh Area, PA.
    Posts
    869
    Feedback Score
    0
    Lake City XM193 has the heat marking where the brass necks down, at least all the Federal XM193 and white box Lake City XM193 I have does. Why does that not have the typical heat discolor I'm used to seeing?

    Just to admit, I do not know what the heat mark is from or why it is there, I just know I see it evertime I open my ammo. When I look at the picture a few posts up, I instantly noticed that the brass is a constant color and not the same as what I am used to holding/seeing.

    Larry
    I save money using AMSOIL full synthetic lubricants. Do you?
    http://www.lubedealer.com/DiscountPowerParts/home.aspx

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    53
    Feedback Score
    0
    Glad to hear you're okay and let's hope it's just the bolt that's screwed. Keep us posted.

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •