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Thread: Guns are dangerous. Federal AE223BK Kaboom.

  1. #21
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    Derek, glad you're okay. Was this your first KB? I hope I will fare as well when I have a similar failure, which I assume is only a matter of time since I shoot a fair bit and use lots of different ammo of occasionally dubious provenance.


    Quote Originally Posted by larry0071 View Post
    Just to admit, I do not know what the heat mark is from or why it is there, I just know I see it evertime I open my ammo. When I look at the picture a few posts up, I instantly noticed that the brass is a constant color and not the same as what I am used to holding/seeing.
    Larry, from what I understand the discoloration you mention is caused by annealing which is done for reliability and accuracy (it serves to re-soften the brass at the case neck.) After reading up on it, several sources indicate that a lack of annealing on the cartridge can lead to case neck splitting...

    What I have read seems to indicate that NATO-pressure ammo without annealing could be a contributing factor in a KaBoom. I could be wrong. If so, hopefully someone will correct me. ETA: Others have pointed out that lack of annealing can cause problems, but the annealing may not be apparent due to tumbling. Also, this case (no pun intended) does not appear to be split at the neck as is usually caused by lack of annealing, but rather a circumferential split.


    Quote Originally Posted by larry0071 View Post
    Lake City XM193 has the heat marking where the brass necks down, at least all the Federal XM193 and white box Lake City XM193 I have does. Why does that not have the typical heat discolor I'm used to seeing?
    All the XM193 (both F and otherwise) I have has annealing on the case-neck. I have on hand white and brown box "XM193F" as well as AE black box "XM193" from various lot #'s. All rounds I have so far examined show the annealing and LC 09 w/ NATO cross headstamp. Also, I believe annealing is called for in the original M193 spec (unable to verify this currently,) so I would be somewhat suspicious of any round claiming to be any variation of M193 and not having annealing. HTH
    Last edited by HiggsBoson; 04-26-09 at 10:18.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by larry0071 View Post
    Lake City XM193 has the heat marking where the brass necks down, at least all the Federal XM193 and white box Lake City XM193 I have does. Why does that not have the typical heat discolor I'm used to seeing?

    Just to admit, I do not know what the heat mark is from or why it is there, I just know I see it evertime I open my ammo. When I look at the picture a few posts up, I instantly noticed that the brass is a constant color and not the same as what I am used to holding/seeing.
    Larry
    The "heat mark" is caused in the manufacturing process when the brass is annealed to soften it somewhat in the neck and shoulder area. Thus, a better gas seal is obtained and the case neck is less likely to split.

    Every time the case is reloaded and fired the brass, especially in the neck and shoulder area, work-hardens, so after it has been reloaded a number of times it should be re-annealed. But that does not mean that it needs to be re-annealed every, or every other, or even every third reloading.

    Some people who reload tumble their brass just enough to clean it up, in which case the annealing will still be visible. Others, including some commercial reloaders, like their brass to look all bright and shiny, so they tumble it more, which causes the brass to look like the brass in the photo above.

    I'm not saying that this is what happened or that the brass was reloaded. I'm just explaining the process.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by larry0071 View Post
    Lake City XM193 has the heat marking where the brass necks down, at least all the Federal XM193 and white box Lake City XM193 I have does. Why does that not have the typical heat discolor I'm used to seeing?

    Just to admit, I do not know what the heat mark is from or why it is there, I just know I see it evertime I open my ammo. When I look at the picture a few posts up, I instantly noticed that the brass is a constant color and not the same as what I am used to holding/seeing.

    Larry
    IIRC, the discoloration you're referring to is from the process of annealing the case neck. Annealing is (simplified) a thermal cycle to remove the residual stresses from forming the neck. I think the non-discolored cases have had it polished away for appearances...

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

    ETA: Amazing how much can get posted while it's taking you an hour to type out a short post
    Last edited by LOKNLOD; 04-25-09 at 18:44.
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  4. #24
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    Glad your ok dude, Keep us updated on what Steve finds.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  5. #25
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    First: Derek, glad you got out with all your digits and eyeballs.

    Second: Thanks for sharing with us. I've already learned some good technical information because you did so.

    Stay safe.

  6. #26
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    Incidents like this, as isolated as they may be, definitely remind me of how serious this shit can get every time the trigger is pulled. Its hard to rememver you have 50k+ PSI going off 4-5 inches infront of your face...

    Its humbling.


    ETA: I found the carboard box the plastic bag came in. I thought I had thrown it out already which is why I didn't have the LOT # info readily available. I found it in recycling pile. To my surprise, I do feel like an asshole. But after getting the box, I do have a question for Recobs, as to why they are advertising XM-193 but shipping reloaded AE .223
    Last edited by Derek_Connor; 04-25-09 at 20:12.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek_Connor View Post
    Incidents like this, as isolated as they may be, definitely remind me of how serious this shit can get every time the trigger is pulled. Its hard to rememver you have 50k+ PSI going off 4-5 inches infront of your face...

    Its humbling.
    Really brings home why wear eye and ear protection doesn't it? Glad you fared safely in this situation.
    Peace, Jerry

    I don't drink the koolaid

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek_Connor View Post

    ETA: I found the carboard box the plastic bag came in. I thought I had thrown it out already which is why I didn't have the LOT # info readily available. I found it in recycling pile. To my surprise, I do feel like an asshole. But after getting the box, I do have a question for Recobs, as to why they are advertising XM-193 but shipping reloaded AE .223
    Dun, dun, duuuuuh. Just like the old movies where the plot thickens. Maybe you should have paid them in Australian dollars. That's not kosher.
    The Second Amendment ACKNOWLEDGES our right to own and bear arms that are in common use that can be used for lawful purposes. The arms can be restricted ONLY if subject to historical analogue from the founding era or is dangerous (unsafe) AND unusual.

    It's that simple.

  9. #29
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    Wink

    The bolt and barrel or at least the barrel extension should not be used again, whether or not there are visible cracks. Both are pretty marginal to start with-- I mean, they are not exactly overbuilt.

    I know it hurts to give up a Noveske barrel. I suppose you could have another barrel extension put on it but barrel extensions are a little scarcer and 'spensiver now, plus the labor getting it oriented right and all.... and since the barrel already has a sh'load of rounds through it...... I think it's barrel-o'clock.

    And you can get that feedramp thing taken care of at the same time

  10. #30
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    i read through a few times, but i never saw a Lot #

    did you not have any of the boxes left from which to retrieve the lot number?


    was this Federal XM193 in the brown box, or the brown sleeve w/strippers? or was it American Eagle Tactical black box? was it Speer Lawman blue box?


    glad to hear that you and you're friends were not injured. i know that its comparatively irrelevant, but glad that the rifle wasn't completely destroyed as well.
    Last edited by Parabellum9x19mm; 04-25-09 at 22:36.
    TUEBOR

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