Guns are dangerous. Federal AE223BK Kaboom.

[Ned Christiansen]

I agree that given the right powder it seems pretty hard to significantly overload .223. On the other hand, believe it or not I just saw a kaboom where a guy was just getting into reloading. Guess what 23 grains of Bullseye does to an AR15? Now that's an overload!

A load on the edge-- plus a case that's weak for some reason-- plus maybe cases that weren't trimmed to length and were long enough that the case neck was squeezed down onto the bullet-- plus maybe the feeding chamfer/radius on Derek's barrel is a tad deep-- plus another factor or two we can't even guess-- 5% here and 5% there, and the end of the safety factor was reached!

[Lostinthewoods]

I agree (oob unlikely).

The only way I know of that an out of battery firing can happen, other than, say, a foreign object on the bolt face firing the primer, is if the bolt carrier bounces after the firing pin has done its duty-- only an issue on full auto. I'm not going to say it's impossible on a semi-auto gun-- one that's been diddled with as mentioned above or one that's just plain malfunctioning. Hammer follows bolt, fires the round as the bolt is bouncing, pressure has not dropped, carrier bounces enough to unlock bolt..... theoretically and mechanically not impossible I guess but that was pretty much addressed in the early '60's with the buffer as a bounce inhibitor.

Given a combo the wrong buffer, say one of the old Mom-and-Pop's Bufferama imitations with no stack of weights and rubber discs, an extra-strong buffer spring (or would it be extra light?), a heavy barrel for the carrier to bounce off of, a malfunctioning semi FCG where the hammer is following the bolt, soft primers that can react to the reduced hammer blow delivered under these conditions, and let's say we've dropped a round in the chamber and then dropped the bolt on it, so there's no stripping of a round from the mag to retard things just a tad........... I'm probably never gonna say an out of battery firing can't happen. But I have definitely not seen it all yet...... and these are only my opinions.

Going by what I see here it's not what happened. The sectioned barrel is chamfered/radiused as per normal and had 10K-plus rounds through it, no blowouts. To me it appears that Derek's case was in a chamber with about the same radius.

Feel free to use the images.

Both times I have seen a similar thing happen was back in the early '80's when everyone was doing the back yard FA conversions, by just replacing the guts on a CAR15 with M16 parts and no DIAS. Most of the parts were worn out junk bought at gun shows, rewelded bolt carriers, etc. It was very stupid, but I have known many people who did it.

Both times looked identical to the damage and pics shown by the OP, we measured the dimension I asked for and both were in the 1/4" area. Couldn't come to any other conclusion except the gun fired SOMEHOW with the case slightly out of the chamber. I believe now, since I understand the system a little better, the hammer caught the bolt bounce when the BC was slightly unlocked, as these guns were probably running 1100 rpm plus.

Thanks for your insight, and I don't mean to argue with you, but I still believe he has another problem somewhere.

Thanks,
HB

[ZDL]

Both times I have seen a similar thing happen was back in the early '80's when everyone was doing the back yard FA conversions, by just replacing the guts on a CAR15 with M16 parts and no DIAS. Most of the parts were worn out junk bought at gun shows, rewelded bolt carriers, etc. It was very stupid, but I have known many people who did it.

Both times looked identical to the damage and pics shown by the OP, we measured the dimension I asked for and both were in the 1/4" area. Couldn't come to any other conclusion except the gun fired SOMEHOW with the case slightly out of the chamber. I believe now, since I understand the system a little better, the hammer caught the bolt bounce when the BC was slightly unlocked, as these guns were probably running 1100 rpm plus.

Thanks for your insight, and I don't mean to argue with you, but I still believe he has another problem somewhere.

Thanks,
HB

You said somewhere about posting your credentials? Have you done that? Might have missed it.

[Lostinthewoods]

I agree that given the right powder it seems pretty hard to significantly overload .223. On the other hand, believe it or not I just saw a kaboom where a guy was just getting into reloading. Guess what 23 grains of Bullseye does to an AR15? Now that's an overload!

A load on the edge-- plus a case that's weak for some reason-- plus maybe cases that weren't trimmed to length and were long enough that the case neck was squeezed down onto the bullet-- plus maybe the feeding chamfer/radius on Derek's barrel is a tad deep-- plus another factor or two we can't even guess-- 5% here and 5% there, and the end of the safety factor was reached!

These are supposedly factory Federal .223 rounds, he even had the original box. I was basing all my assumptions on that fact.

All bets are off if they are truly reloads, but I don't believe they are, by looking at the pics.

I'd still like that measurement, it would let me know if I am truly an idiot.

Thanks again,
HB

[SeriousStudent]

Mr. Christiansen, I would like to add my thanks to the others, for your work with those photos.

[Derek_Connor]

Justin @ Federal called me back today. I was taken back by how professional and concerned he was. One of the first questions he asked me was if I was ok. Thought that was squared away.

Getting an RA # from them, they are going to take the lot of ammo back from me.

Thats all the info I have right now, will update as we proceed.

[ZDL]

Justin @ Federal called me back today. I was taken back by how professional and concerned he was. One of the first questions he asked me was if I was ok. Thought that was squared away.

Getting an RA # from them, they are going to take the lot of ammo back from me.

Thats all the info I have right now, will update as we proceed.

Excellent.

[coldblue]

Of course. ... To me screams double/overcharged ammo.

Then pull a bullet and see how much space is left in the case to add such a double load of powder. I doubt that there will be that much room. There will be enough room for a few more grains, but not a double.

[decodeddiesel]

Then pull a bullet and see how much space is left in the case to add such a double load of powder. I doubt that there will be that much room. There will be enough room for a few more grains, but not a double.

Sure, but as you said they're still some room for extra propellant.

[markm]

Sure, but as you said they're still some room for extra propellant.

Exactly. XM193 is maxed out 5.56 pressure ammo, but there's room for more powder in the case. You can shake a round or a mag full of rounds and hear it.

I wouldn't want another half a grain of propellent in one of those loads (as an example).