Hi Guys. This is my first post (and first AR). I have a DPMS panther lite, 16" bbl A1 config. I got these groups at 50 yards using a 20 year old Aimpoint 3000 on top of the carry handle; PMC cheap practice ammo. The bottom right group was the best of the day. I think the red dot is actually about 2 MOA, which is bigger than the best group by a fair amount. Based on this, once I get some glass with magnification, should I expect sub MOA from this barrel? Tell me what you think!
Hey, welcome to the board.
This site is a fantastic place to learn about the M4/AR weapons system. Especially the "top tier" rifles. (See the chart located somewhere here)
There might not be a lot of guys here who know much about DPMS.
I know a good bit about DPMS, however I won't promise you that this is a good thing.
DPMS actualy has some very accurate barrels. However Accuracy is not always the same as quality. I have had two barrels personally that were out of spec. Every time they were fired I would get a bulge around the base of the bullet and many times it would stick and need to be extracted manually.
Barrel are 1/9 twist and not Chrome lined by default. They often defend themselves saying that this is an option. I personally think it should be the norm, not the exception. Especially on M4 barrels.
In addition I worked for a good sized DPMS distributor. Normal orders for us were in the hundreds. We would often get complaints about things. Broken stocks, etc, etc. Most were minor things but it brings into question the overall level of QC they have.
It matters far less whose name is stamped on the side of the lower reciever as to what you can do with it. Good shooting!
Thanks for the response
I sensed before posting that many members would have strong (low) opinions about the less expensive manufacturers. My next AR will be my own build, but this first time opportunity for an AR was the right deal at the right time. Possible shortcomings aside, I must say that...so far this rifle ROCKS...no malfunctions and great performance. I will eventually start swapping parts on it, too, 'cause I really don't care for that permanent carry handle. More to the point....whaddaya' think?...can I probably get some good groups at 100+ yards with decent glass on top of it, if 1/2" or less at 50 yards is now happening on a regular basis? Mathematically I think so, but I have not had to chance to try at that distance yet.
The problem lies in consistency. Some work, some don't.
"Do you feel lucky?"
I had a similar experience with a brand new DPMS rifle in .308 two years ago. Extremely rough barrel. In fact, the first patch through the barrel required a mallet to drive it, and it and came out shredded. I kid you not. Best 10 shot group at 35 yards from a concrete benchrest using a Bald Eagle front rest + rear bag, 36x Leupold BR scope, and shooting Federal Gold Match ammo was 11". DPMS replaced the barrel, without comment, but only after I showed them irrefutable documented evidence. Friends with DPMS rifles have much better luck, but this inexcusable, serious QC screw-up has soured me on DPMS.
I had a dpms which I paid $725 otd with a few spare mags to boot! It was accurate and reliable, though I only put about 3k rds tru it mostly wolf and brown bear. I sold it for a very handsome profit, not because there was anything wrong with the gun, financial reasons only. Picked up a Daniel Defense M4 when it first came out and even an inexperienced newcomer like me could notice the difference, I sold it also because my neighbor offerred me $500 more than what I paid for it so that was gone too...now all I have is a S&W mp15 and a colt 6920 but those I'm keeping !
It would be nice if someone would just answer the original question, IMHO. Look, i know how everyone feels about the brand, that's painfully obvious... lets just pretend it's not about that and look at the picture in the first post, if that's not tooooo much to ask...
I guess I'll find out for myself at the range next week. Excuse me for being frustrated, but the whole DPMS/Oly/Crapbrand-of-the-Month bashing is tiresome. There are lots of threads dedicated to that, I was just asking a simple question.
"Arguing on the internet is like running a race in the special olympics (there's that @#$% OLY word again)...even if you win, you're still retarded!"
Accuracy expectations are tough to comment on, but I'll try.
Any weapon will have a few loads that it will prefer to others. I would try out a few different brands, as well as bullet weights, and make notes as to what works best in your particular rifle. If you want to get the most accuracy possible from your weapon you will likely want to hand load.
If you are capable of shooting sub MOA (not the rifle, but you). The rifle will probably not hold you back. DPMS has received its share of complaints, but there have also been some nice reviews on their products over the years.
Optics will be another concern you will want to consider. If you want to consistently shoot sub MOA groups at 100 yds you will probably want to invest in a good scope and mount. You don't have to spend $1K to get a decent scope, but you will want an optic that has a reticule that obscures less of the target that a 2, 4 or 8 MOA dot or donut reticule.
As for the DPMS, Oly stuff, just try to ignore it. Everyone has their favorites and as well as the brands they like to bash. Enjoy what you have and if you decide to try something different down the road that is OK too.
Happy shooting and congrats on the new rifle,
Last edited by tolson68; 06-04-09 at 20:38.