Kel-Tec Sub2000

[abnk]

Greetings, gents.


I'm not sure if this belongs in m4c.net, but I'll try my luck.

I am considering the carbine in question for several reasons:

1. I travel often and I like the idea of a "trunk gun".
2. It is compact and extremely concealable (for a carbine). It can be folded in half and fit in a laptop bag, backpack, and could be easily hidden in a car. And it can be brought to action by simply snapping it together.
2. Uses my pistol magazines.
3. Fills a gap for me as I don't have a 9mm carbine.
4. It is inexpensive for the gap it would fill.

All reviews that I have read acclaim the reliability of the Sub2000. Many were surprised by the accuracy. The only negative that I read from more than one person is the uncomfortable and awkward cheek-weld. That said, all these accounts come from, in Pat's words, the "errornet".

Does anyone anyone have any experience with them?

Thanks in advance.

[DRich]

I've had a 9mm Sub2k (Glock mags) for about 5yrs. It's kinda like an AK...ugly, inferior ergonomics, utterly reliable and decently accurate. I've fed it a steady diet (almost 3k rounds) of 115gr FMJ ammo and it's never had a FTF/FTE failure. However, it has had a handful of hard primer problems. It happens rarely enough that I don't know if its related to the ammo or to the gun.

For me, it's just a plinker. I shoot cans and steel poppers at 50yds while I wait for my other rifles to cool off. For the price I paid ($230 at a gun show), it's a bargain. I'd recommend them to anyone who wants an inexpensive, but reliable 9mm carbine to play with.

[Stephen_H]

I have had one for a little over 2 years now. I too use it as a trunk gun knowing that if it were ever stolen I would only be out about $400 bucks.

It is combat accurate, lightweight, compact, and with the Glock 33 round mags it has a substantial mag capacity. When loaded with +P cartridges it has near .357 magnum velocity out of the 16" barrel. It is simple and reliable.

The only negatives I can think of are the uncomfortable cheek-to-stock weld and the sharp recoil even with standard ammo. I spent a few bucks with Ashley at Blue Force Gear to purchase his SUB2000 upgrades. Namely the improved front sight post which replaces a poorly designed plastic piece with aa excellent AR15 sight compatible aluminum unit. Also, the improved charging handle is much easier on the hands during reloading.

I did a review of it here on LF.net.

Stephen

[Shihan]

What the others above said, dont pay more than 330.00 for it. Becareful when taking it apart as cheapie litle springs and detens may shoot out acroos the room or into your yeye. Also the takedown pin can go in either way and its not specified in the instructions which way for it to go. But if it goes in the other way its a PIA to get it out and you either have to hammer it or send it in to Keltec. Also the stock digs into the shoulder and is on the painful side I find and is alot more comfortable with the stock extension.

[abnk]

Thank you, everyone. It sounds like the Sub2000 is exactly what I thought of it.

Stephen, I saw your thread is from 2005. How's the paint holding? Also do you know if anyone else sells aftermarket front sights? Blue Force Gear does not seem to carry them anymore.

[TOrrock]

I tried really hard to hate them when I sold them, but honestly, for what they are, they work great. They eat factory JHP with no issues.

[Stephen_H]

Thank you, everyone. It sounds like the Sub2000 is exactly what I thought of it.

Stephen, I saw your thread is from 2005. How's the paint holding? Also do you know if anyone else sells aftermarket front sights? Blue Force Gear does not seem to carry them anymore.

Drop them a line or call them. It is my understanding that they are going to do an improved version of these soon. I don't know of anywhere else that does an aftermarket front sight for the SUB2000.

If I get some more info on it I'll post it here.

Stephen

[Joe Mamma]

I also have a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 that takes Glock mags. It's got the feel and ergonomics of a cheap, crappy, plastic gun . . . but, I really like the gun!

The only things I would add is that you are not supposed to use aluminum case ammo (CCI Blazer) with it. Also, the only ammo that I remember having problems with is CCI Blazer Brass. I have no idea why but, I regularly get failure to extract/stovepipe jams with it. I have shot a lot of different ammo and can't remember having any problems with anything else.

It not my first choice for a last resort SHTF gun but, it's a good choice for a trunk gun.

By the way, below are some chrono numbers I have that will give you an idea of the kind of velocities you will get with one. I had posted this on various forums a long time ago but, I thought you might want to see it.


* * * * * * *
Here are some of my recent tests out of a Glock 17 (4.5" barrel) and a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 carbine (16.1" barrel). I used the Kel-Tec because I was curious to see how much velocity would be gained by a longer barrel with the various ammo that I tested. Everyone has a theory but, one test is worth a thousand theories.

If it matters, testing conditions were about 40 degrees farenheit. All testing was done on the same day.

I am by no means an authority on ballistics. I welcome all feedback and comments.


Ammo Description (Product Code)
average velocity with G-17, average velocity with Kel-Tec Sub 2000

1. Federal NATO, 124gr FMJ (M882)
1114, 1231

2. Federal Hydra-Shok 124gr +P+ JHP (P9HS3G1)
1167, 1321

3. Winchester USA Brand ("White Box") Hollow Points 115gr JHP (USA9JHP)
1149, 1305

4. Winchester USA Brand ("White Box") Hollow Points 147gr JHP (USA9JHP2)
1020, 1117

5. CCI Blazer Brass 115 gr FMJ (5200)
1120, 1299

6. CCI Blazer Aluminum 115gr FMJ (3509)
1153, [did not test in my Kel-Tec b/c aluminum cased ammo is not recommended; but, I was tempted . . . ]

7. Sellier & Bellot 115 gr FMJ (80166-00902)
1162, 1296

8. Geco/Dynamit Nobel 124gr (23364-12585)
1129, 1256

9. Magtech 147gr "FMC-FLAT" (891798-001347)
969, 1096
* * * * * * *

Joe Mamma

[tpd223]

Yes, I realize this is an awesome level of necropost, but I thought it better than starting a whole new thread.

For the folks who have had a sub2000, now that it's three years since this thread was started, how has your carbine held up?

I've always been interested in one of these for the Glock mags, since I carry Glock 9mms, and I'd like to have a discrete long gun for road trips and traveling.

[joshua79109]

Mine started off bad. Had an issue with the safety, trigger, FTFs, and FTEs.

Had to go back to Kel-Tec twice. Their customer service was excellent.

Now it runs well. Very accurate and fun to use. I added the rubber cover for better cheek weld (not as hot).

I enjoy it, but would not grab it to protect my family. I really wanted to be able to use it as a protection firearm in some specific scenarios, but I've never been able to trust it in that role. It is interesting enough to me that I keep it and tinker with it. It is the only firearm I have that I do not fully trust - it's the only one I've ever kept that I don't fully trust.