Teach me about the FAL

[Jay Cunningham]

What's up with the DSA A2 type sights? Unnecessary? They seem a bit better protected from knuckle-draggery than the standard type, but unless they are definately more robust, does it even matter? I have been using A2 sights for a long time and I am proficient with them, but I am not really stuck on them if it means more hassle or unnecessary compromise.

IMO a very good upgrade and certainly robust. Be forewarned - early models of this sight had an issue where they leaned too far back and/or forward. Supposedly they quickly fixed this.

What is the preferred mounting method for optics? Seems like the T-1/H-1 would be fine with the included mount or the M3 (cuz I got one) in the low Aimpoint mount. Does the stock height in relation to the rail make mounting low-powered variables marginal in relation to cheek-weld?

DSA heavy duty mount is GTG. I seem to remember seeing LAV with a Short Dot on this mount.

I tend to prefer the feel of a solid stock better than wire side-folder, so I kinda lean toward that. I do have an affinity for M4 type adjustable stocks, but I would rather start out with the "stock" stock before modifying anything.

Para stock is a pretty damn good folder, and has good sling attachment options.

What are the problem parts? What would be prudent to have extras of? What kind of life-cycle/replacement schedule do parts have? Will there be any compatability issue with DSA and other metric FAL suppliers? Are there any specific tools that are required for maintenance/repair?

I can't speak too intelligently to this, other than to say if you have a fixed stock you need the buttstock tool. Sight adjustment is with a simple cheap tool, I believe the SKS tool works as well.

What simple upgrades improve the system? Mag release upgrade/improvement, grip, furniture, etc? Are they simple things or will they require smithing?

The extended shelf selector/safety is an absolutely outstanding upgrade - unfortunately I'm not sure how durable this part is. It is "drop in" otherwise. The Poly hand guards are much nicer than the sheet metal ones.

What's up with mags? Any particularly good or bad ones? Are the 30s more of a hassle than their extra bullets are worth? I see how much larger they are, but do they work? I assume that they are sub-optimal, so I am thinking that I will stick with the 20s and 5s (should I ever feel the need to schwack a deer with it) unless there are good higher cap options.

Standard metric FAL mags are cheap and GTG - I would generally avoid 30's due to reliability and bulk.

What are you doing for sling attachment, specifically a VCAS?

The poly HG's can be easily modified with a drill and conventional swivel or with a strategically placed piece of rail.

The two that DSA offer that most pique my interest are the SA58 Spartan and Carbine, 16" or 18". The Spartan is significantly more expensive but the product details are lacking and I really don't know enough past the obvious (sights, grip, NP3, duracoat, +2 mags) to tell the difference or value gap.

If I were to recommend just one for serious purposes it would be the SA58 FAL Carbine PARA.

[Drummer]

The FAL is one of my favorite rifles and epitome of a great weapon, in my opinion.

I also like the 18" barrels. It seems to make a well-balanced rifle without being too unwieldy. The plastic Belgian style handguards are the way to go, though the Izzy LB ones get points for looking cool.

My advice if you get a fixed stock is to get the STG-style stock, not the Belgian-style humpback stock. I've got rifles with both and much prefer the Austrian stock.

Someone was making some enlarged magazine releases at one point, maybe they still are. I bought a couple and prefer them to any of the original style ones. They are ambidextrous.

Even with the extended selector lever, I can't hit it without moving my hand. It's just the nature of the beast (or rather beauty, in this case.)

The FALFiles are a treasure trove of FAL info. Look around there and you'll start figuring out what you want.

My only complaint for the FAL is it's weight. One day I may build another one with a healthy dose of slimfast. But I've got too many AR projects to finish first.

Besides, if the Massoud ever sees the light of day, my need for another FAL will probably diminish

[DMR]

I'm no expert, but heres a few tidbits.

Ed Vandenburg built mine off a G-1 kit. It has a 16" barrel and his brake. The combo is very loud indoors and requires good hearing protection. I had the DSA scope mount, but traded it off, I'm looking at replacing it with a ARMS (PRI made). Once I do I will add the T-1. I to us the short rail on the plastic forends.

There used to be a "Holland" mag release availible that offered a larger mag release profile, but i haven't been able to find one to replace mine.

Parts kits are harder to find these days, so DSA might be the best bet.

[LDM]

First off, FAL Files are a wealth of info.

RE: barrel length
16 is louder than 18; but it boils down to what you like. 16 is handy; 18 is probably optimal. I just put PWS devices on my two FAL's but have yet to get to the range. Will post a comment when I run them a bit.

RE: weight
The lower of a standard FAL is steel; this weight and tweaking the gas regulator can really tame the recoil. An aluminum lower (Hampton lower) makes a huge difference in balance and handling. I much prefer the aluminum.

RE: mag release
There are a couple of kinds. The Israeli is a bit longer and better than standard. Either FSE or Falcon makes, or made, an extended "paddle" mag release that is vastly superior.

RE:furniture
ERGO makes a great replacement grip that I strongly prefer because of a slightly different angle; this angle is closer to that of an M-4 than the original FAL grip. Although some like the angle of the original.

RE: sights, scope mounts
FAL's are battle rifles and as such 2-3 MOA is what to expect. The standard sights are good enough, but I also have one with the A-2 type sight and the advantages of that type sight are well known.
The DSA and ARMs scope mounts replace the dust cover and are friction affixed to the receiver by screws. Both are bomb-proof. I just got a STANAG military scope mount that replaces the dust cover and is easily interchangeable; early read is that is hold zero well.

As previously said, it is very ergonomic. If you had never held one, and one was placed in your hands with your eyes closed, you'd just know where the controls were. FAL's like to be run "wet" (plenty of oil on bolt assembly). Correct setting of the gas regulator is absolutely necessary. A gas regulator wrench is handy but not absolutely necessary; same for sight adjustment wrench. This rifle really benefits from a trigger job. A mild 2800 fps loading of 150 gr bullets will serve you well.

First and last, the FAL is a practical battle rifle designed to reliably send heavy bullets down range one at a time. You gotta love it for that.

Now you know everything I know about FAL's.

[Jay Cunningham]

[Littlelebowski]

The FAL reminds me of the Glock: great trigger reset, reliable, accurate but not the most accurate.

I recommend the SAW grip.

[RogerinTPA]

Hey Katar, what kind of FAL is LAV holding? Is that a 16 inch barrel?

[TOrrock]

That pic of Larry is from the Battle Rifle 1 class that he held a couple of years ago. He's running his DSA SA58 carbine with a 16" barrel, aluminum lower receiver, DSA scope mount, Short Dot, G2 on a piece of 1913 rail he put on the standard handguards, and his front sling attachment is from a M1903 Springfield that he cut the synthetic handguards to accept. I've run a VCAS sling using the original front sling swivel on the barrel and the original rear attachment point on a Para stock:

Pic of one of the FN guys using my Para, just not slung up:





The A2 sights are nice, but the standard service sights for the FAL are quite useable and much more rugged than they look. I too thought "damn.....no protective ears?" but in looking at FAL's that are in the hands of people that probably would be better off with AK's, I've not seen a FAL rear sight ever damaged.

The Dutch style mag release is a little longer and there's more surface area to hit to release the mag.

I wear a size 12 glove, and can hit the standard magazine release on a metric FAL with my trigger finger without disrupting my master grip. If someone does not have wookie paws like myself, the magazine release is positioned so that you can release the mag with your support hand, like an AK mag, and the bolt release is located at an optimal place to actuate with your support hand.

The DSA scope mounts are good to go, a tad on the bulky side but rock solid. Once you install them though, you can't really remove them for cleaning. Not a deal killer, it just makes you clean the rifle like a HK G3 with that long closed receiver shell.

The ARMS mount was one of the first of the really good practical mounts, but I have heard from several people I trust that they will eventually start to loose the ability to hold zero. They are less bulky than the DSA mount however.

The Belgian short muzzle device is very adequate for what it is. It suppresses flash decently. DSA and other people have taken some of the Austrian "Stoll" flash suppressor/grenade launcher muzzle devices and cut them down so that they almost look like a Vortex with straight tines. I've not shot one in low light so I can't comment on the flash suppression.

This is a close up of the standard Belgian short device that's mounted on my Rhodesian R1, which was used on the majority of metric FAL's in service throughout the world:





And this is a cut down "Stoll" flash suppressor that's mounted on my Para:





Opinions differ on stocks.....no suprise there, everyone is an individual. I personally like the Para stock. The Israelis took that stock and put it on the Galil, so if you ever got any trigger time on one of them, that's how they feel. If you find the LOP too long on the Para, you can either have the stuts cut down and shortened, or you can buy an adjustable LOP Para stock from DSA.

With the fixed stock, the recoil spring runs in a long tube that extends for the length of the buttstock....there's not a lot you can do about LOP. I personally prefer the Belgian "humpback" style of stock, it has a bit more drop to it that fits me better. The Austrians were the only country to use a straight stock. I find the LOP to be a bit long if you're used to running an M4 with the stock closed to the first or second position.

I'm 6'3", but again, everyone has their own personal tastes. Synthetic FAL fixed stocks will have a rubber butt pad that adds a bit to the LOP. I much prefer my wooden R1 stock with the steel buttplate because it's a good 3/4" to 1" shorter than a synthetic stock.


Mags.....stick with the 20's, the 30's that are usually most available are actually British L7 BREN magazines that will fit an Inch Pattern rifle (L1A1) but have had the locking tabs ground down to fit in a metric receiver. They can work just fine, but the BREN depended on gravity to help feed, since the mag fed from the top. Pushing 30 rounds of 7.62 NATO up is a lot to ask. I'm not saying they won't work, but you're more likely to see feeding issues with them. If they ran without issue, I'm sure the Brits and their Commonwealth troops would have used them as standard issue for their service rifles.

The South Africans made some metric 30 round mags, sometimes by welding two 20's together. From what I've heard about their use in Angola and Mozambique, they didn't work out so well and 20 rounders were used in the vast majority of cases.

Stick with military magazines, the Austrian Steyr magazines will be parkerized and have 3 witness holes, other metric magazines don't have witness holes.

The Germans released their stockpile of FAL mags that they had in storage for their G1 that were issued to the Bundesgrenzschutz. You can still find them, they were sold in packs of 10, sealed, new, and with a painted finish.

The grip from a M249 is interchangeable with the standard metric FAL, and it's a good upgrade, although the standard grip is just fine for me personally.

The standard safety on a metric FAL can be harder to reach for some people, but still easier than on a HK G3. The L1A1 safety is much easier to acutate with your master hand if you're right handed, and you can put them on a metric rifle.

Standard selector compared to a G3 selector:




Extended selector on a British L1A1:





DSA offers an extended selector that I'd highly recommend.

As others have mentioned, there were other quality FAL's that were available in years past. Original FN FAL's were imported by several different companies, and will not be cheap. Springfield Armory imported Imbel contract FAL's as the SAR-48 (pre 1989 import ban) and SAR-4800's (post 1989 import ban). They were top shelf FAL's, military grade, hard chrome lined bores.

There were a ton of FAL parts kits imported 10 years ago, and a lot of good builders assembled them on bare Imbel receivers, DSA receivers, Enterprise, and DCI receivers.

DSA and Imbel receivers are the best out there, besides original Belgian.

Hope that helps,

T.

[DMR]

If I didn't live in NYS I would be interested in putting the KX3 Flash Suppressor on my 16 carbine to see what it does to the muzzle blast.

[Gutshot John]

Templar brought up concerns about the shortened gas system, and while I am not at all doubtful about the advised aversion, I would like to really understand the "why" about it.

The shortened gas system is mostly an issue with SBR barrels either 11" or 13". It's the same with an AR carbine gas system and a short barrel, there isn't really enough dwell time to cycle the action reliably unless you open up the gas port significantly, you might even have to get a gunsmith to bore it out a little bit.

You can (and I have) had issues with a LONG gas system and a 16" carbine barrel.

I want to know the little intracasies and details of the platform. I don't intend on this becoming the be all and end all information source, but it would be nice to have a source for that info.

There are plenty of sources of good information but the FALfiles is really the best. You can use their search feature to get an encyclopedia of knowledge on the FAL system. If you have technical questions look for the guy with the Wile E. Coyote avatar (Gary J.).

From my perspective it's an amazing GP weapon that does a lot of things very well. Today I'm just getting back from a DMR class put on by LRI (run by Littlelebowski's brother) where I used my FAL. In fact I'm writing this from a bar in Denver International.

Outside of some ammo issues (got some weak German NATO milsurp) that were fixed by borrowing some match .308 from a classmate it performed magnificently with a TA-33 ACOG. The ACOG is a PERFECT companion to the FAL, just get the lowest possible mount you can find (TA-51 is what I went with).

If I did my part it averaged about 2 moa and I was ringing steel out to 600 yards on 18x24" targets pretty easily. It makes an excellent DMR weapon. I'll be doing a more formal write-up/AAR on the class and the FAL when I get back home.