Times change, do you?

[Submariner]

In my case, I've spent some time with a significant variety of instructors. I know who my favorite is and I think that overall, he's the best in the business. However, there are others that are good enough (for me and my needs) that I intend to continue to seek their instruction as often as possible. On the flip side, there are some that I won't ever again, nor will I ever recommend them to anyone else. I'm far from the most accomplished student or practitioner, but I'd like to think I'm a reasonably well educated consumer of these products.

And for this reason threads like this are helpful. It all about the reality of consuming quality training services for a given training budget. What do you want to accomplish and how much will you spend to do it? The answer differs, too, when you factor in how many people one is training on that budget. There is probably a different answer when it is six people, e.g. I and my five oldest children, compared to just me.

See sig line.

[GLB]

For me when I finish a class I look over my notes and make a plan on what skills sets I need to work on. when I go to the range I spend most of my time working from this plan. Otherwise I would be tempted to shoot my strong skills and not work the newer ones.

[Ash Hess]

I am currently deployed and dont get to visit here very often. This thread had been going on for awhile and there are many valid points. I have attempted to stay current with the times but found myself drawn back to some words of advice from an old Spec ops type Senior NCO
"violently execute the Battle Drills and flawlessly execute the fundamentals"

focused Training- Priorities. If you dont carry a pistol everyday for work, your focus should be there. Carbine is important but you have highest chance of using the pistol. I am in Afghan-a-land. range to target is generally 150ish meters. but I have to ID before i can shoot. The "cool guys" train and run a Aimpoint T1. Very cool sight, but no help for seeing if a Cave Troll has gun at 200 meters. So if I train with a T1 i am losing valuable time with the ACOG.

I attended an Appleseed before this deployment. I have done advanced courses, have used my carbine for real in real places, and think of myself as pretty decent. This humble little weekend challenged myself and some very good shooters. plus to add salt to the wound, a 13 year old with an iron sighted 10-22 schooled the whole class with a cool confident pace and a fundamentals. in all the cool guy stuff, i had lost some of the fundamentals. I know its not as cool to say Basic marksmanship but its true.

But since coming in the Army in 1996 I have changed gear, stance, weapons, sights, styles, and most importantly targets. We have all changed with the Landscape. think about it.

[YammyMonkey]

Over the last few years the biggest thing for me has been seeking out the why as opposed to the what. A lot of the time I'm more concerned with why someone teaches/uses a technique than all the details of the technique itself. After practicing a particular draw technique (for instance) in class I can have a pretty decent grasp on the subject, go back home, practice & refine it & make it mine. If I don't understand why the instructor teaches it though I could very well be practicing something that has no application in my life.

I've found a few things that I will not mess with. It's not because I'm wrapped up in some mystique or because I'm a stubborn ass but because it works & I have a very thorough understanding of the why behind them.

I've gotten over the idea that a particular class will make me a super duper Gringo Pistolero. A class may give me some of the tools to work with, but it's up to me to put in the time & effort to put those training tools to use.

My experience with the gear, carbine vs pistol time, etc. has mirrored a lot of what other people have experienced with the same lessons learned & reality checks.

[LockenLoad]

I run into this quite often. Whether it's the M4C forumite who's taking ten classes a year but never goes to the range otherwise or the private lesson student I've got who literally wants to pay me to watch him shoot 2-3 times per week, you're doing it wrong.

I don't want to turn away money, but seriously ... there is no way you have absorbed everything taught in a 2-3 day class without spending some Me time on the range practicing. At a minimum, you need to put an equal number of rounds downrange between classes as you're shooting at classes. And really, the ratio should be more like 5:1.

If I teach a class in June, and a student from that class also signs up for the same exact class when it's taught in July, what does that tell me? OK, nice ego stroke ... the dude liked what he saw and wants to come back. Yea me! But, how lousy a job must I have done if the guy needs to sit through all those lectures, all that instruction again just one month later. He's already determined he needs to do it all over again ... before he's even tried to do it on his own. Boo me.

You want to come back next year? Great. Let's see how well you've adopted & adapted. You shoot a lot on your own and want to come back in six months? Hey, I'm not going to argue ... I'm not running a non-profit business. But keep things in perspective. If you're doing most things well and just have a hitch in your reload technique or something, a full blown week at Gunny World probably isn't an efficient training methodology.

Even when you talk about guys from serious HSLD units, it's the ones who take the intense training they get and practice it on their own time who become the outstanding shooters. Because once you know what you're supposed to be doing, you need time to work out the details on your own. You don't need to sit through 15 hours of draws, marksmanship, speed, & tactics if you know your problem is that you've got a frakked up reload. You've been taught how to do it right, now go practice it.

Having said all that, I do think there is a value in going back and doing basic-level courses once in a while. For the first ten years or so of my shooting "career" I took at least one level-1 type class every single year. It serves as a good check. Sometimes in the quest to go fast and be cool, we develop bad habits about things like, oh, hitting the target on demand.



Have lesson plan, will travel ...



... or perhaps ...

I am in if you get to Florida

[Harv]

What have I learned....

I've learned that there are only so many ways to do things, and at the end of the day, it's your ability to perform the basics as flawless as possible at the drop of hat that will win the day.

Everything comes around full circle eventually... I have seen it at work for close to 20 years.. someone comes around with what they think is this new and revolutionary way to do something, and it's a method we were doing 15 years ago...
but it's new to them...

I have not changed any of my techniques drastically.. just small improvements here and there...I just continue to practice the basics until they are second nature.

[till44]

I've learned more often than not that less is more and that the phrase, "Beware the man with one gun for he will know how to use it." rings true.

- Economy of movement is so important for all aspects of shooting.
- Muscle memory is key, you need to be able to react, and react correctly without having to think it through.
- There is a thing as too much gear and too many guns.
- Constant training is essentail if you hope to keep your skill set up, and the internet doesn't count as training.
- Any equipment will do if you will do. Gear is fun and nice to have but its the operator that drives performance. There's no points for looking good when bullets are flying.

And above all, the topic of the thread, training, techniques, and tactics are not stagnant, they're dynamic and forever changing. If you don't keep up they'll leave you behind.

[Alric]

- Any equipment will do if you will do. Gear is fun and nice to have but its the operator that drives performance. There's no points for looking good when bullets are flying.

I believe I understand what you're saying here and I like the idea, but I also believe that gear can create efficiency. As you've said, its not about looking good or having fashion gear, whatever that may mean. Its about the mission. The best example I can think of off hand is doing entry/CQB with a 20" M16 and an ACOG. Sure, a skilled operator can probably make it work, but there is other gear much better suited to the mission.

[sinister]

Confusion reigns when one doesn't know what he's pursuing or why.

A uniformed lawman's or combatant's focus will be much different from a hobbyist who wants to know what deliberate, full-time shooters are learning and swinging. He may or may not fully understand the why.

What may be interesting to one may be a daily event for another.

The "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast" mantra came directly from free-fall parachutist cadre who transitioned into new shooter/CQB indoctrination and training positions. The term comes from the "Dirt-dive" (on-the-ground pre-jump) rehearsals for 4-man free fall relative work. Actions at 120 miles per hour in terminal velocity free fall cannot be jerky and overdone -- if they are you throw the whole formation and the moves of the other three into the trash bin. You immediately become "That guy." Even better if everything's being documented on video.

Your INDIVIDUAL actions directly affect the actions of the whole -- what the hobbyist may never learn or understand since he may never be a part of a dedicated paired or full team.

Gear (including weapons) changes depending on situation and mission. Stasis is not progress or development. Repetition of an action expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Things change. Change is good. Good Soldiers roll with changes.

[rob_s]

what the hobbyist may never learn or understand since he may never be a part of a dedicated paired or full team.

Gear (including weapons) changes depending on situation and mission.

I know it's not your intent, but the two statements above happening to be next to each other was something I couldn't pass up.