Whats the deal with the .45 G.A.P.

[parishioner]

I remember reading an article years ago about this cartridge and how it refined the .45 and I think Glock was making the pistols for it and still is making them for the round. I haven't heard of anyone using it though. I imagine the ammo would be expensive and difficult to find especially since it isnt popular.

What is the story behind the G.A.P. and why did it never catch on? Im going to assume it didnt offer any significant improvement over the .45 for people to switch.

[matthewdanger]

Last I heard there were a few large departments who were issuing them (or maybe just allowing them as an option). I never really understood the need for the .45 GAP in the first place.

[RogerinTPA]

It was Glock who developed the round (Glock Automatic Pistol) to fit in a gun that was similar in size to their 9/40 platforms, to appeal to those who might want a more concealable pistol, without sacrificing firepower of the ACP. A marketing gimmick for an unnecessary round to fill a perceived gap/nitch, that wasn't there.

[tpd223]

Think about when this popped up; during the ban.

Having ten rounds of .45 in the same size gun as a 9mm made sense, especially since you couldn't buy any new 17 round mags for your 9mm.

NY and Penn State Police have both adopted the GAP, due to flawed logic IMHO, but whatever.

[apache64]

Flawed logic? What a nice way to say another dumb decision. As a proud member of one of the large agencies with the GAP, Glock 21 SF, 13 + 1 rounds of .45 ACP was available, with holsters on the market. Let us pick a Glock with lower capacity, poor holster selection and difficult to find ammo. By the way, the magic charts put it closer to a .40 S&W. OK, why not the Glock 22 which has 15 + 1 capacity, ammo everywhere, including P&S, and holsters galore. By the way, if anybody on our dept. owned a Glock previously, most likely it was a Glock 27. Mag compatibility for backups.

Whatever. Sorry for the slight rant. G37 is a nice gun to shoot and it is a Glock, but it doesn't make sense.

Hopefully, Glock will make the interchangeable grips so that everyone can finally be at peace and make their gun fit their hands.

[CoryCop25]

The .45 GAP had flopped due to poor ammunition issues. Winchester has addressed those issues and now the GAP is a formidable cartridge. The Pennsylvania State Police adopted the GAP about 2 years ago. Not too up to date on any of their officer involved shootings with it but I know the one shootings in my area was very effective to say the least. Unfortunately we did loose a Trooper in this incident, he did manage to hit the bad guy three times after receiving a fatal hit to the neck. His partner added five more rounds to the assailant after taking one to the arm and the other officers on scene rescued the 9 year old hostage. Although the brass of the PSP are known for making bad decisions ( poor vehicle emergency lighting, not enough troopers on the interstates) the .45GAP was chosen because it put a large caliber round comfortably in the hands of all their Troopers male or female, big or small hands. I believe they are carrying the Speer Gold Dot 200 grain round which has the exact same ballistics as the old 200 grain .45 ACP flying ashtray that was the leading .45 ACP law enforcement round.

[ToddG]

Glock developed the cartridge for two reasons:

First and foremost, Gaston hated the fact that Colt had its name on cartridges, and S&W had its name on cartridges, and SIG had its name on cartridges ... but not Glock. I've been told this many times by people with first hand knowledge Gaston wanted his name on a cartridge.

Second and much more reasonable, the development was pre-JCP so there was a dearth of big-caliber pistols on the market that were reasonably high capacity and small enough for small/female officers.

Unfortunately for Glock, a number of bad things happened:

• The original plan was to make the gun identical in size to the G17/G22. Concept: trade agencies out in favor of the new, bigger bullet without needing new holsters, etc. Problem: the gun wouldn't work without a wider, heavier slide. Result: the gun doesn't fit in those G17/G22 holsters.
• Ammo availability was (and is) limited. Prices are high.
• There were a number of folks, including a well known military unit, that tested the gun and found that it was unreliable.
• The gun has significantly more felt recoil than either a G22 or G21.
• JCP came along and suddenly the entire industry was devoting massive R&D money to create high-capacity .45 Auto pistols that were small, reliable, lightweight, and durable.

To date, every large agency that has adopted the .45 GAP Glocks got their guns for free. In the case of NYSD, state law wouldn't allow the department to trade its old guns so Glock gave them, flat out, free of charge, nothing in return, all the guns, holsters, mag pouches, and two years worth of duty, transition, and training/qual ammo. That was the length Glock was willing to go in order to get a major agency in the win column for .45 GAP.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that the .45 GAP is effective in a terminal sense. It's a .45, after all, and matches .45 Auto velocities with mid-weight bullets reasonably well. But in a world with HK45s and M&P45s, you no longer have to rely on a shorter cartridge to get a 10rd .45 that will work in the hands of your smaller officers. And you don't need to rely on a nearly proprietary cartridge with a doubtful future.

[kmrtnsn]

"A marketing gimmick for an unnecessary round to fill a perceived gap/nitch, that wasn't there."

.357SIG, anyone?

[parishioner]

Glock developed the cartridge for two reasons:

First and foremost, Gaston hated the fact that Colt had its name on cartridges, and S&W had its name on cartridges, and SIG had its name on cartridges ... but not Glock. I've been told this many times by people with first hand knowledge Gaston wanted his name on a cartridge.

Second and much more reasonable, the development was pre-JCP so there was a dearth of big-caliber pistols on the market that were reasonably high capacity and small enough for small/female officers.

Unfortunately for Glock, a number of bad things happened:

• The original plan was to make the gun identical in size to the G17/G22. Concept: trade agencies out in favor of the new, bigger bullet without needing new holsters, etc. Problem: the gun wouldn't work without a wider, heavier slide. Result: the gun doesn't fit in those G17/G22 holsters.
• Ammo availability was (and is) limited. Prices are high.
• There were a number of folks, including a well known military unit, that tested the gun and found that it was unreliable.
• The gun has significantly more felt recoil than either a G22 or G21.
• JCP came along and suddenly the entire industry was devoting massive R&D money to create high-capacity .45 Auto pistols that were small, reliable, lightweight, and durable.

To date, every large agency that has adopted the .45 GAP Glocks got their guns for free. In the case of NYSD, state law wouldn't allow the department to trade its old guns so Glock gave them, flat out, free of charge, nothing in return, all the guns, holsters, mag pouches, and two years worth of duty, transition, and training/qual ammo. That was the length Glock was willing to go in order to get a major agency in the win column for .45 GAP.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that the .45 GAP is effective in a terminal sense. It's a .45, after all, and matches .45 Auto velocities with mid-weight bullets reasonably well. But in a world with HK45s and M&P45s, you no longer have to rely on a shorter cartridge to get a 10rd .45 that will work in the hands of your smaller officers. And you don't need to rely on a nearly proprietary cartridge with a doubtful future.

Oooooo. Great insight as always. Thanks guys.

[tpd223]

IIRC, Penn was carrying the .40, as well as several other agencies there, and the NYSP was carrying the G17.

I wouldn't have traded a G17 for a G37 without kicking and screaming.

I was talking via e-mail a couple of years ago with a copper from Penn who thought the .40 "lacks stopping power" and what they needed was a round that gave "instantaneous stopping power".

He was worried about a few incidents where bad guys had taken several .40 rounds and not stopped immediately, one was the guy from the power point that everyone on the internet has seen by now, the other was a crazy guy with a chain saw.
I won't belabor the back-story on the power point guy, but I will note that "maniac with a chain saw" would very likely be someone in the hard to stop category.

I had been unaware that Gaston had in fact invented what we have all been searching for all these years, a bullet that acts like a death ray.