Best Suppressed SBR Ever????

[Colt6920]

Nice upper.

What I have found for canned use is:
Noveske Switchblock
Noveske N4 10.5
Lt stealth upper
DB youngs bcg
Pri gasbuster
Hk 416 buffer and spring.
Been shooting this my last couple of outings suppressed only, because that is the point of this upper. Fully cycles and locks back even with green/white box remington ammo. Althought I have not tried the upper on the unsupressed settings with the can removed I dont even want to. I think for unsupressed use I would go with another setup just becuse of poi changes with removeing the can which is the old M4 2000 18 tooth setup.

But I am realing liking this setup for canned use as it is as smooth as a slicked up 10/22 recoil wise.

[C4IGrant]

Thats cool stuff Grant. I guess you will be building the upper for the lower your sending me One question though, is there a difference between 10.5 and a 11.5" barrel? And if so what are the pro's and con's of them? Thanks

The 11.5 gives you a much longer frag range than the 10.5. It also allows you to run a longer rail.



C4

[C4IGrant]

Excellent!! Can't wait to give you $$$$.

Thanks for sharing your smarts... Gonna be nice to have a 1st class SBR & doing it right the first time. Couple of questions.

Is there any real pro / con (or personal preference) for 10.5 vs. 11.5 set up?? The low recoil & using it 100% suppressed is my main goal for an sbr & oal is not really a factor for my application.

How much does the quality of the can come into play with reliability?? My initial thought was one of your uppers and an m4-1000 can (only due to the fact of my class III contact) I'm just guessing different cans could cause different pressures for the gas system??

Thanks C4

A can is a can when it comes to back pressure. Where the difference in cans shows itself is in POI shifts.



C4

[C4IGrant]

So, if I am tracking right the lighter the buffer the less felt recoil. With the Enhanced carrier you get reliable opeation thru H3, could you reduce the size of the gas port further and get down to a H or standard buffer with reduced recoil and even less gas back in the upper?

You could reduce the gas port some and get it to work only with say a car or H buffer. This is a VERY fine line though and the gas ports on either weapon are VERY tiny already.

If I wanted to run just an H buffer, I would install the CS buffer spring. What we noticed though is that the SS buffer spring and the H3 buffer, it has a more "on target" recoil pattern.



C4

[C4IGrant]

Looks like its time for me to start saving my allowance. How much would a complete set-up like that cost?

Don't really know. I would say that it would be similar to the URX II/BCM build we have going.


C4

[C4IGrant]

Wow, good info Grant.

So now the magic question... Can we order this barrel with the small gas port from Noveske also or are you going to be the only source?

Noveske does not sell N4 Light barrels stripped so you would have to get them from us and then we would build the upper.


C4

[C4IGrant]

Hi Grant,
Excellent writeup, and as usual, a question or two,

1. When an AR doesn't lock back on the last round, does this usually mean that the carrier is traveling so fast, that the follower in the mag doesn't have time to "catch up", thus preventing the bolt locking back?
OR, does is sometimes mean the carrier simply isn't traveling REARWARD enough, in order to lock back?

If the carrier is just "outrunning" the mag spring/follower, I'm wondering if Wolf extra power (10%+?) mag springs wouldn't be a solution here?

This can be a reason, but 90% of the time it is because the weapon is short stroking.

2. Have you tried the Wolff extra power/+P mag springs, in an attempt to get the bolt to lock back 100% of the time, even when unsuppressed???

It would be simply amazing if this setup worked 100% reliably EVEN WHEN UNSUPPRESSED. ????

I have mags with high end CS springs. It does not make a difference.

The 10.5 has ALWAYS run 100% without the can on and so far the 11.5 does as well.


C4

[C4IGrant]

It's the altered cam angle on the enhanced carier. It allows the residual chamber pressure to drop for a few more milliseconds.

It allows for a much more relaxed piece of brass at the start of extraction and makes for a much easier job for the bolt.

It is a shame someone won't make an otherwise conventional carrier with the altered cam angle.

Perhaps if someone with connections suggested it to LMT *cough*Grant*cough*, they would consider doing so.


I am not sure if the cam angle itself is covered by a patent. I think it is the same as the Stoner 63.


How about say a G&R Tactical enhanced carier???


Hmmm???????

Right you are. The angled cam area (which ever so slightly angled) does delay the bolt coming un-locked.

I wish we had as much pull as you think we do.



C4

[C4IGrant]

My LMT with the enhanced BCG will cycle PMC Bronze running an H-buffer.
With 5.56 pressure ammo I am almost positive it would cycle an H-3.
I have and others have commented that my ejected brass doesn't get beat up as much compared to other M-4 clones that I have seen.

Grant have you thought about having the LMT enhanced carrier coated with NP3 or some other kind of coating so that you can gain back some of the benefits you were trying to archive with the Fail Zero carrier[running less lube].

The NP3 finish, like a lot of the other ones wears off over time. The fail zero finish is actually into the metal as they buy the BCG's in the white.

The sole purpose for me using the fail zero stuff was to try and run a lube less, suppressed weapon (something the world has never really seen before).

What I am thinking about now is buying LMT Enhanced carriers (in the white) and sending them to fail zero to have coated.


C4

[Robb Jensen]

The last little piece of info I have gotten from this build is that a suppressor generates at least DOUBLE the pressure created by the cartridge. So if you have an AR with an above average gas port (BM, Oly, DPMS, all piston operated AR’s), you are going to get at least double the felt recoil (if not more)!

The physics of recoil don't work that way.....just sayin'.