Is SIG's quality...

[kanak]

Is it really that bad? I'm looking to get either a SIG 229 or 239 in 9mm or an HK p30. I'm leaning more toward the HK primarily because I've always wanted to own one, and also with all the talk of how good the p30 is shaping up to be, further has me wanting to purchase the HK. Now, if the SIG quality is primarily something that occurs given man made things could fail and is acceptable, in relation to the number of pistols out there and problems other firearms companies have, I'm all for a SIG 229 or 239 with SRT. Insight is much appreciated and needed.

[d90king]

Not sure why you would think that Sig has a quality issue with their handguns?

How are you going to use the pistol?

I have a P30 and a 229, if I am being honest I would say that the P30 is more touchy than the 229 is. The 229 that I have is a little chunky for concealed carry but has never had a failure of any kind. Mine has the CT grips and that could add to it though.

I would not worry about reliability with a Sig, but that is just my experience YMMV.

[Medicine Calf]

Has SIG solved the problem they had with takedown lever failure, and have no other issues popped up since then?

[d90king]

Has SIG solved the problem they had with takedown lever failure, and have no other issues popped up since then?

What experience have you had with those problems?

[ToddG]

What experience have you had with those problems?

Last year, SIG had a pretty serious issue with takedown levers which were improperly (or at least inadequately) manufactured. The result was a number of customers, in particular LE agencies, having the "flag" loosen and begin to spin freely. While mostly causing a simple inconvenience when trying to disassemble the pistol, in some cases the "flag" turned and became jammed into the slide during the recoil cycle, completely locking up the gun.

The issue was significant enough that at one point, there were internal discussions at SIG considering a recall of tens of thousands of affected guns. Instead, it was decided to replace broken levers as they occurred. Some LE agencies, however, did receive new levers for all guns in the affected lot(s).

Ironically, some of the earliest replacement levers had a new problem as the "flag" was welded in place but not pinned. Result was that some of the flags simply fell off. This had no practical effect on the functionality of the gun, but tools were required to disassemble.

To the best of my knowledge, SIG resolved the problem many months ago and there have been no reports of problems with the takedown lever since that time.

[d90king]

Last year, SIG had a pretty serious issue with takedown levers which were improperly (or at least inadequately) manufactured. The result was a number of customers, in particular LE agencies, having the "flag" loosen and begin to spin freely. While mostly causing a simple inconvenience when trying to disassemble the pistol, in some cases the "flag" turned and became jammed into the slide during the recoil cycle, completely locking up the gun.

The issue was significant enough that at one point, there were internal discussions at SIG considering a recall of tens of thousands of affected guns. Instead, it was decided to replace broken levers as they occurred. Some LE agencies, however, did receive new levers for all guns in the affected lot(s).

Ironically, some of the earliest replacement levers had a new problem as the "flag" was welded in place but not pinned. Result was that some of the flags simply fell off. This had no practical effect on the functionality of the gun, but tools were required to disassemble.

To the best of my knowledge, SIG resolved the problem many months ago and there have been no reports of problems with the takedown lever since that time.

Thank you for the detailed info. I have not experienced any issues and was curious to hear from people who were familiar with the issue. My 229 is a couple years old and has not shown any signs of the problem in 5812 rounds.

I don't use the pistol for every day carry and only shoot it a couple times a month to stay in practice with it (it is my bed side bio safe pistol), so that could be why I haven't had the problems you mentioned. Thanks again...

[gtmtnbiker98]

A lot of the QC problems have been amplified by the Internet and Web forums similar to this one. As for overall quality, comparing Exeter guns to guns manufactured in the mid 90s, yes, QC has slipped but the guns are still every bit as reliable. The QC related issues have really escalated in recent months, for instance since late 2008 and this year.

A lot of the blame regarding QC is focused upon current management and their connections with Kimber. YMMV.

[ToddG]

Thank you for the detailed info. I have not experienced any issues and was curious to hear from people who were familiar with the issue. My 229 is a couple years old and has not shown any signs of the problem in 5812 rounds.

Ten years ago, you could buy a SIG, load it at the gunshop, walk out the front door and know the gun was going to work. Period. You can't say that about the guns coming out of Exeter now.

But that doesn't mean they suck or that they're substantially more problematic than other brands. If you've got over 5,000 rounds through yours, it's pretty well proven at this point.

While I'd no longer blindly trust a NIB SIG, I'd certainly carry one after I put 1,000 trouble-free rounds through it. Could something still go wrong? Yes. But that's true of any gun on the market.

[PPGMD]

The German QC and proofing process might detect major issues like accuracy problems, or guns being too tight, but I highly doubt that it would prevent parts failures, unless they just happened to break during the process.

IMO I would put the current Sig QC about the same level as the rest of the non-European industry. They have a bad batch of parts every once in a while, and their QC might not be as extensive as it was in Germany, but they are still reliable quality guns.

I also agree that I think the problems are magnified by the internet, and time. People remember a fonder time, and the people that had broken German Sigs are less likely to own Sigs currently.

[ToddG]

The German QC and proofing process might detect major issues like accuracy problems, or guns being too tight, but I highly doubt that it would prevent parts failures, unless they just happened to break during the process.

Actually, no. The main difference is that ten years ago all the small parts were manufactured by Sauer in Germany and then still QC checked when they arrived in Exeter. Now they're bought from other companies all over the world (Israel & SE Asia, for instance) and clearly they aren't being subjected to the same level of QC.

I also agree that I think the problems are magnified by the internet, and time. People remember a fonder time, and the people that had broken German Sigs are less likely to own Sigs currently.

This has nothing to do with Germany vs. Exeter. Guns being manufactured in Exeter in the early part of this decade were as high quality and dependable as any SIGs ever manufactured. It has to do with decisions to outsource more parts including critical components such as the locking insert, a decision to cease test firing of non-LE guns (and at some points in time, many LE guns), etc.

Prior to the current CEO's appointment, SIG was struggling to remain solvent. The new CEO was brought in to cut costs and improve profitability. He's done exactly what the owners want, which is why he was elevated to running the entire international group.

This is the reality of the industry right now. You can either have very high QC and very high prices, or you can have "good enough" QC and competitive pricing. The only big company still following the first model is HK, and they probably don't sell a quarter as many guns as their competition.