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Thread: Haven Police Ditch Glocks After Two Explode

  1. #1
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    Haven Police Ditch Glocks After Two Explode

    WINTER HAVEN | The Police Department is ditching $38,000 worth of guns after two .45-caliber GAP Glock Model 37 pistols exploded in separate training incidents a year a part, causing minor injuries to an officer and a cadet.

    "I've been around 34 years in law enforcement, and we've seen malfunctioning with guns, but never seen it explode," Police Chief Mark LeVine said.

    "When I've got two guns out of 90 mess up, something's wrong."

    The department has not had any problems with the guns during use in the line of duty.

    The force of the explosions came down through the bottom of the guns and blew the triggers off, LeVine said.

    Police Officer Frank Scianimanico, 32, and then-cadet Rodrique Jean-Louis, 20, suffered bruised fingers in the separate incidents.

    As a result, the department will try an all-metal gun as a possible replacement for the plastic Glock during weapons testing Tuesday and March 20.

    LeVine issued a memo Feb. 1 to his officers saying that if anyone was uncomfortable carrying the Glock they could carry a personal weapon instead, as long as the gun meets the department's requirements.

    The department tried to work out a solution with Glock. The gun's Georgia-based manufacturer offered to swap out the nearly 2 1/2-year-old guns if the department paid the company $10,000.

    But LeVine said that is unfair.

    "I personally question if it should cost us anything at all," the chief said.

    A Glock spokesman said the company is aware of the Winter Haven incidents, but hasn't had the opportunity to examine the guns yet.

    "Without looking at the pistol, there's no way for us to make a determination," said Glock spokesman Carlos Guevara.

    FIRST EXPLOSION

    The first incident occurred in January 2007 when a Glock exploded while being used by Jean-Louis, a former cadet the department was sponsoring at the Polk Community College Kenneth C. Thompson Institute of Public Safety, which trains prospective police officers.

    Department officials dismissed the incident as the fault of bad ammunition, and so did Glock.

    The second incident, the one involving Scianiamancio, was this January during training at the department's shooting range at the Winter Haven Airport.

    "We had another explode in the same fashion," LeVine said. "We've only got 90 guns, and two failed. It has caused a certain amount of uneasiness."

    The issue seems to be with the gun, which only Glock makes, LeVine said.

    The Polk County Sheriff's Office uses a different Glock, the .40-caliber Model 22 pistol, but there haven't been any incidents with it, said spokeswoman Carrie Rodgers.

    The Sheriff's Office switched last year to the Glocks after using Smith & Wessons. The Glocks cost the agency $350 per gun, compared with $560 for the .45-caliber Smith & Wessons deputies were using.

    "They're easier to fire, more accurate, and they hold more ammunition," Rodgers said.

    Lake Alfred Police Chief Art Bodenheimer said he would never let his officers use a Glock after he saw a video demonstration of one being partially disassembled after being jammed.

    His officers use Smith & Wessons instead, because it is an all-metal gun, compared to the plastic Glock, he said.

    "I'm not a Glock enthusiast," Bodenheimer said.

    The Winter Haven Police Department isn't the only one that has had problem with Glocks. At least two other law enforcement agencies have reported issues.

    elsewhere in u.s.

    Two .45-caliber Glock Model 21 pistols exploded in the hands of two officers at the Portland Police Department, according to a 2004 article in The Oregonian newspaper. That department then switched to 9 mm Glocks.

    In 2006, The Oregonian reported an officer who was injured when his gun exploded filed a multi-million-dollar lawsuit against Glock and the ammunition manufacturer.

    In Pennsylvania, a training officer with the Upper Darby Township Police Department said his department used to carry the Glock Model 21 before it started jamming.

    The department is now testing a different model of Glock. "We can't get a reason why it keeps happening," he said.

    Guevara said Glock's guns aren't defective, and malfunctioning incidents at other agencies are attributed to ammunition or maintenance of the guns.

    And the fact that the Portland Police Department switched to a different Glock model is an indication of how good Glock guns are, Guevara said.

    http://www.theledger.com/article/200...803130481/1004
    Old age and treachery always overcome youth and skill

  2. #2
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    I notice a pattern...

  3. #3
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    There are few 9mms better, if any, than the Glock 17. Glocks in all other calibers are...eh.
    Last edited by The Dumb Gun Collector; 07-19-09 at 01:47.
    Let those who are fond of blaming and finding fault, while they sit safely at home, ask, ‘Why did you not do thus and so?’I wish they were on this voyage; I well believe that another voyage of a different kind awaits them.”

    Christopher Columbus

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    ***********
    Last edited by ZDL; 05-01-10 at 13:33.

  5. #5
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    Opinions on the G26?

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    Well my buddies Glock 45 acp blew up on him. Luckily he was wearing safety glasses and only received minor facial cuts and a few bad ones on his hand. Came to learn many people have had the same and several PD's also, not just the two mentioned. I have only heard of 1 model 17 blowing up.
    Last edited by Going4Broke; 07-19-09 at 08:12.

  7. #7
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    I wonder which "all metal" pistol they will be going to? The Beretta 92/90-Two perhaps?

  8. #8
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    This dates back to March I believe.

  9. #9
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    I'm not putting the Kool-Aide Down Yet

    http://http://www.theledger.com/arti...803140389/1134

    WINTER HAVEN | The company that manufactures the ammunition for the .45-caliber GAP Glock Model 37 is taking responsibility for guns exploding during two separate training incidents, slightly injuring a Winter Haven police officer and a former police cadet.

    spokesman for Speer Gold Dot, the manufacturer of the ammunition, said Thursday that a batch of bullets sent to the Winter Haven department was defective.

    Speer Gold Dot said after the first incident in January 2007 it recalled the bullets sent to Winter Haven but that some of the ammunition remained at the department and was used when the second incident occurred earlier this year.

    Winter Haven Police Chief Mark LeVine confirmed Thursday that Speer Gold Dot had recalled the bullets after the first failure. He said some of the ammunition was kept unknowingly and a bullet from that batch was involved in the second explosion.

    LeVine said he's not convinced that the ammunition was the only problem and he still has concerns about the Glock handguns.

    LeVine told The Ledger on Wednesday that the department was discontinuing use of the GAP Glock Model 37 because of concerns about safety.

    A Glock spokesman on Wednesday said the company stood by the quality of its products, but that it hadn't been able to examine the firearms in the Winter Haven incidents and could not say whether there were any problems with them.

    Glock has said that any problems with its firearms are the result of the ammunition in use or poor maintenance of the weapons.

    On Thursday, a spokesman for Speer Gold Dot said the bullets, not the guns, caused the Winter Haven explosions.

    "I made 500 bad cartridges and I shipped them to the Winter Haven Police Department," said Ernest Durnham, cartridge engineer for Speer.

    "If I had a problem with my product, then I'll be completely honest with my customer," he said. "And I think that's why Speer Gold is the No. 1 market leader."

    Durham said he reviewed quality-control records and concluded the batch the Winter Haven Police Department received should not have been sent.

    The Winter Haven Police Department was the only law enforcement agency to receive the bad ammunition, he said.

    "The goal of any factory is to have zero defects," Durham said. "My ammunition defect rate is less than 1 in 50 million."

    In the Winter Haven incidents, police Officer Frank Scianimanico, 32, and Rodrique Jean-Louis, 20, a former cadet at the Polk Community College Kenneth C. Thompson Institute of Public Safety, suffered bruised fingers. The first occurred in January 2007 and the second in January this year.

    LeVine sent a memo in February to his officers saying they could use their own weapons, as long as they met the department's requirements, until the agency buys replacements.

    The Police Department will test other weapons next week.

    Some agencies have reported problems with Glock products and others have said they have not encountered any problems.

    The Portland, Ore., Police Department was once involved in litigation with Glock after two .45-caliber Glock Model 21 pistols exploded in the hands of two officers, Portland Police Sgt. Brian Schmautz said.

    City officials there spent a lot of money to investigate the matter but have since resolved the issue with Glock and the department now uses a 9mm Glock.

    "Our training division was satisfied with the transition," he said. "(Glock) accepted no liability for what occurred so we moved on."

    In a separate litigation, one of the injured Portland police officers filed a multimillion-dollar lawsuit against Glock and the ammunition manufacturer. The lawsuit hasn't been resolved.

    The Polk County Sheriff's Office switched to a Glock .40-caliber Model 22 pistol, and there haven't been any incidents with it, said spokeswoman Carrie Rodgers.

    [ Merissa Green can be reached at merissa.green@theledger.com or 863-401-6968. ]

  10. #10
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    riddlin,

    Thanks for posting that because that is exactly where I was going. I guess more and more people are abandoning common sense when it comes to stuff like this and they would rather toss away guns that have a an overall record that is good.

    The first thing that jumped out at me in the first article is why they didn't send the weapons to Glock for examination. Equally Glock could have sent someone there to examine them as well.

    Did it ever occur to anyone involved that a "kaboom" is many times linked to the ammo and not the weapon? Apparently not.

    So they want to switch to an all metal firearm. Sounds good as well know that they won't explode either if a bad batch of ammo is used.



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