Why not Sig?

[calvin118]

I have noticed a number of reputable individuals in this forum saying that they would not recommend a new Sig. After spending some time searching old threads, I see that there are extractor issues with the P220 and that nobody seems to like the p250 in general. There have also been a few complaints about beavertailed models lowering the grip. Otherwise, I have noticed a number of nonspecific comments such as 'their quality has gotten worse and people are having problems.'

I was wondering what these issues specifically were.

I have a Sig P226 with SRT in .40 made in early 2007. I have put several thousand rounds through it, and it has experienced one failure to feed. I don't mind the beavertail, as it helps guide my grip. I don't think it significantly effects the height of my grip either, because I can wedge the web between my thumb and index finger against it a lot harder than I can with the standard short tail. In any case, the end result is a gun that gets back on target quickly and shoots quite fast for a .40.

In my hands, the p226 is noticeably more accurate, recoils less, has a better trigger, and shoots faster (with accuracy) than the popular glock 22. The reliability has been excellent (although it does need to be kept wet). In terms of durability, I have read from several sources that military and LE 22x's can go in excess of 100,000 rounds. I realize that one person's opinion and experience means very little, but given my experience I was very surprised to hear the negative opinions.

I am far from married to sigs, .40 s&w, or the p226. In fact, I rarely carry it and it is the only Sig I own or plan to own. Overall, I lean towards different brands in different calibers but I still feel like this is a great firearm. I was very surprised to learn about the low opinion people here have about new Sigs, especially in light of Sig winning the DHS contract in 2004. Thank you all in advance for clarifying this for me.

[Serpico1985]

I don't know. I have a 220 Combat and really like it. Simple, reliable, accurate. If you want some sig lovin try hanging out over on the Sigforum. Haha.

[rathos]

I just purchased a sig 228 (one of the new railed versions) and the biggest difference I notice is in the trigger. It used to be that sig triggers were all 10 pounds double action and smooth as butter with a decent 4.4 single action pull (this is also what they list in their spec sheets). We tested mine out of the box with a lyman trigger gauge ( 5 pulls for each action and took the average). Double action tested in at 11 pounds 5.5 ounces and single came in at 6 pounds .5 ounces. We put a 17 pound main spring and polished some of the parts and got it down to about 9 pounds 9 ounces double (and it felt smooth) and 5 pounds 5 ounces single. There is still a bit of creep but I wanted to shoot the gun a bit before we did anything else.

it is extremely accurate like a sig should be, and the rail is nice to have, but if my friend didn't know so much about sigs and doing trigger work I would have bought an HK instead.

[ToddG]

No manufacturer produces a handgun which regularly goes 100,000 rounds without significant problem. Can a 9mm SIG, properly cared for, go to 100,000 rounds if you're a little lucky? Absolutely. Ditto Glock, HK, etc.

I've personally handled a pre-'05 357 SIG P229 that had over 100,000 rounds through it and the only two breakages it experienced were a broken decocker spring (does not affect combat function in a meaningful way) and a broken trigger bar (disabled the gun, easy to replace). However, that same agency regularly had more guns that cracked before 20k than they had guns make it to 100k.

If your P226 has made it this far without trouble, odds are it will last you the rest of your life if you treat it well.

QC issues don't equate to "every gun sucks." It just means that the odds of having a gun that experiences a problem out of the box increases, and the odds of having a gun that develops a problem earlier in its life increases.

[noops]

I'll add my two cents since my working guns are mostly Sig P-Series pistols, and I've put a lot of rounds through old and new, German and US made in training and practice.

I think quality has fallen off in just little ways that don't generally make a huge difference, but they do have an impact. For example, I have to old P228's (one 1993, 1994). They're both west german proofed. They are lighter, slightly better balanced (that's subjective, but I hear it often enough from others who have also shot both a lot). The triggers are excellent. Way better than what I'm shooting on new guns. I've had a couple of 229's recently that were fine as a working gun, but not quite as nice. I had a 229R (.40) that was perfectly reliable, but the trigger was so bad I got rid of it. I have a very recent 229 Generation 2 SAS (9mm) that is outstanding in fit, finish, ergos. The SRT reset is great. The machine work and slide are like a true Sig. And unfortunately, the DA trigger feels like 10 miles of gravel road. Horrible. But the gun works great. Well, that one goes the Bruce Gray I guess.

Maybe I was spoiled by the old guns. There's nothing really wrong with the new ones. They just seem not QUITE as good. It annoys me that I have to send a top-line gun from an already high-end manufacturer to a gunsmith. But I still train hard on them, and still put my money(life?) behind the new sig. That being said, I carry the old 228's most of the time...

Finally, the 220 thing was a mess for them. Supposedly fixed, but I've only owned 9mm, and .40 cal P-Series pistols.

I do think they've heard and are trying to come back up to the line. We'll see if that happens. I just sent a P228 back for AEP, SRT, and SSP. I'll post what that comes back like.

[warpigM-4]

I have been looking at a p220 carry with the shorter slide, but full size frame.I have had a few Sigs, all were German weapons,I have a p230 coded year make 1994 and it has been a great little carry gun .But I want the .45..MMMMMM what to do

[Reddevil]

My issued P229R DAK is a DHS issued Sig. This is my 2nd one in 3 years. We have had quite a few with issues both at my field office and academy. I can't comment on the Sigs available to the public, but the DHS contract models seem to have been put together with very little quality control. The majority seem to be broken firing pins and or springs. Mine developed a cracked barrel after about 2000 rounds. The sad thing is that Sig will be the only handguns we will be able to carry for duty. Our agency is phasing out all other personally owned weapons and we will not be able to carry H&K or Glocks anymore.

[calvin118]

Thanks all for your replies.

It seems the message is that the Sig P22x is a great design, but that design is no longer being implemented as meticulously as it once was. That's a real shame, because its the only gun that I've ever liked chambered in .40 (although I have not given the m&p .40 a try yet). I suppose I should just be thankful that mine works... at least so far

[kmrtnsn]

It is closing on 2010, the P Series was THE pistol standard in 1990, unfortunately for SIG they have rested on their laurels and not kept up with the demands of the market and the innovations of their competitors.

[kornbread402]

My Department has issued the sig 229 .40 since 1998. The older guns, mine included have had very few to no issues. In the last two years the newer issue sigs have had to be replaced due to breakages with our guys in the academy. So I’ll side with the lack of q.c these days.