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Thread: Noveske Barrel Break-In (Stainless Steel)

  1. #61
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    The most basic element of scientific testing is having a control group; in Molon's case, a not "broken in" barrel. His hypothesis seems to be something along the lines of "fouled barrels don't group as well as cleaner barrels, broken in barrels don't foul as bad therefore broken in barrels group better" but he hasn't proven the former and he cannot without a control group so this is nothing but one sided research. This is said without rancor.

    Look at this from Frank at Rifle's Only via the link I posted earlier. Notice that he actually tested 2 identical rifles; one "broken in," one not.

    I have done something which can be considering a bit of proof, testing two similar rifles with one being broken in and the other not. Both were purchased within a short period of time of each other and fired in an identical manner. Fed a diet of factory ammo under similar conditions.

    Two identical SAKO TRG-22 rifles in 308. I broke in one barrel and did not with the other and could not tell one from the other in terms of accuracy or cleaning, or anything else. Not very scientific but at the time I was not looking to be, other than interested in seeing what the results were. No down range gains, both shot equally well to the point of not knowing which was which after a year or so of shooting both.

    Fast forward and I have completely stopped breaking in my barrels, and still I see no degradation of accuracy or difference in what is required to clean the rifles up. The barrels do not get shot out any faster, nor does accuracy degrade quicker or is there any noticeable fouling taking place.

    I tend to clean my barrels much less then most but still manage well over 10,000 rounds staying below an MOA at 100 yards. I recently rebarreled my GAP Harbinger with a Broughton .30 cal barrel after it had what I conservatively estimated 12k rounds down the rifle. It was just about hovering at .75" at 100 yards. According to GAP it was worn about 1/4" in the throat.

    At Rifles Only the SHR #50 had in excess of 15,000 rounds through it before changing the barrel with no break in and very little cleaning. It too was shooting about .75" when the action would cock the bolt. GAP reported about 4" of rifling missing from in front of the throat.

    My Werewolf with a Bartlein Barrel has about 6k rounds currently through it, no break in, and no issue with accuracy or fouling, it shoots a solid 1/2 MOA.

    The Gladius, about 3k rounds through it hits like a hammer, very little cleaning and no break in.

    None of my gas guns have had their barrels broken in either, that is 3, a POF, a GAP with a Rock Creek and a Bartlein. No issues, very accurate and no fouling.

    I also spoke with Tac Ops on the subject, and he does not believe in breaking in a barrel, Mike R does not recommend any form of break in, and does his test firing without doing so. So there is another voice in the mix that after years of experience does not feel there is any merit to the process. He did mention, as others have as well, that it's a bit of a pain in the ass because most customers expect some form of guidance and he simply recommends they shoot more and clean less, much to their chagrin.

    So while data may not be available with hard and fast evidence, I have quite a bit of rounds downrange with a variety of similarly chambered 308s from a variety of makers and my results as well as opinions appear to be all the same. Clean less, shoot more and don't sweat the dogma published in the name of Barrel Break In.
    Last edited by Littlelebowski; 02-04-11 at 09:14.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIDENT82 View Post
    Just to be clear here....it's sounds as if several folks in this thread are calling out Molon and his thoughts on barrel break in procedure, moreover the tone is rather unfriendly, if not disrespectful in reference to his opinion.

    Molon has plenty of fans after the vast amt. of contributions in the accuracy/precision AR realm as well as the ammunition aspect that he has posted on the various forums, so I am not so much defending him as I am defending his PROVEN track record in regards to not only having an opinion on the silly internet but actually backing that up with evidence and facts. As far as I am concerned his facts and evidence are some of the most unbiased and well vetted sources of info to be had anywhere.
    We all are very thankful for Molon's awesome, respected contributions on this site and others.
    You can stop kissing his ass - we're having an adult conversation here. I don't think anybody has in any way attacked Molon. We're all just looking for facts and proof - nothing hostile about that.
    Last edited by Brahmzy; 02-04-11 at 11:16.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelebowski View Post
    The most basic element of scientific testing is having a control group; in Molon's case, a not "broken in" barrel. His hypothesis seems to be something along the lines of "fouled barrels don't group as well as cleaner barrels, broken in barrels don't foul as bad therefore broken in barrels group better" but he hasn't proven the former and he cannot without a control group so this is nothing but one sided research. This is said without rancor.

    Look at this from Frank at Rifle's Only via the link I posted earlier. Notice that he actually tested 2 identical rifles; one "broken in," one not.
    You are exactly right about basic scientific testing! This hypothesis is not along the lines of apples and oranges, but of a fresh, crisp apple and one that had a bite taken out of it yesterday!
    John 8:32 (KJV) And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

    There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

    When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, "Well, what do you need?" -- Stephen Wright

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIDENT82 View Post
    Just to be clear here....it's sounds as if several folks in this thread are calling out Molon and his thoughts on barrel break in procedure, moreover the tone is rather unfriendly, if not disrespectful in reference to his opinion.

    Molon has plenty of fans after the vast amt. of contributions in the accuracy/precision AR realm as well as the ammunition aspect that he has posted on the various forums, so I am not so much defending him as I am defending his PROVEN track record in regards to not only having an opinion on the silly internet but actually backing that up with evidence and facts. As far as I am concerned his facts and evidence are some of the most unbiased and well vetted sources of info to be had anywhere.
    I disagree. I don't see anyone hear attacking him. Molon does some good work at showing shot groups etc in a very good scientific way but he's not being unbiased nor scientific in this break-in discussion.

    I've put up my ideas to put an end of this 'theory' of break-in. No one is stepping up to the plate with barrels and ammo..... perhaps they think it's a total waste time too.

    "Understanding does not come through comparison, it comes only when you examine the thing itself."-Krishnamurti

    And this is why I say two barrels from the same manufacturer, 2K rounds of ammo per barrel:

    Test barrel 1.) do the break-in, 20 rounds later shoot a 10 shot group. 2K rounds later 10 shot group with same ammo, same lot # same shooter. Compare % of accuracy degradation from this barrels first 10 shot group.

    Test barrel 2.) no break in, 20 rounds later shoot a 10 shot group. 2K rounds later shoot another 10 shot group with same ammo, same lot # same shooter. Compare % of accuracy degradation from this barrels first 10 shot group.

    Then compare the % of degradation of each barrel to the other. I predict there won't be any difference.....
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
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  5. #65
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    Now I know that CL barrels are not comparable to stainless as far as accuracy, but I regularly shoot my CL barrels to 500. I know that this info is far from scientific but it may be helpful, I have an lmt mrp with a 14.5 inch CL barrel, and after a long debate with a friend of mine on this subject, we decided to pick up a new barrel and "break it in" to see if there was a significant difference in grouping.

    This test was inherently flawed as I used my original barrel (which had no break in procedures preformed on it) which had a round count of ~2500 and compared it to a brand new barrel, and we also shot outdoors, however we found that there was almost no difference between the groups of 10 we would shoot at 500. A minor edge actually went to my original barrel, however this could be well attributable to my own error as a shooter, as I was holding just above 1 minute with 77 grain black hills SMKs. If nothing else perhaps this would be indicative that break ins have no discernible affect for the average joe.

  6. #66
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    Interesting KAC Lover. Some of the most accurate rifles I've ever shot had chrome moly non chrome lined barrels.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robb Jensen View Post
    Interesting KAC Lover. Some of the most accurate rifles I've ever shot had chrome moly non chrome lined barrels.
    you're not the first pro shooter i've heard say this. and they last longer than most, if not all, stainless. so aside from corrosion resistance- why do stainless barrels absolutely dominate AR precision shooting market?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkb0000 View Post
    you're not the first pro shooter i've heard say this. and they last longer than most, if not all, stainless. so aside from corrosion resistance- why do stainless barrels absolutely dominate AR precision shooting market?
    According to this article, http://www.obermeyerbarrels.com/steel.html throats of CM barrels become rough as they erode, causing vertical stringing.

    The erosion in the throats of stainless barrels has less drag on the bullet resulting in less vertical stringing at long ranges

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkb0000 View Post
    you're not the first pro shooter i've heard say this. and they last longer than most, if not all, stainless. so aside from corrosion resistance- why do stainless barrels absolutely dominate AR precision shooting market?
    I don't know myself. It is weird. It is interesting what MistWolf posted above.
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  10. #70
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    I've had a few surprisingly accurate CL barrels throughout the years and I've had some that weren't. The ones that were are the exception to the rule. Across the board SS owns the accuracy/precision crown.
    Anyway, we're switching topics...

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