Whats so great about the M&P?

[CaptainDooley]

Seems like splitting hairs/semantics to me. Both Glocks and M&Ps have safeties that are disengaged only by pulling the trigger. How easy it is to overcome the safety should be irrelevant since with either weapon (really any weapon) safe gun handling would mean being very intentional about what does or does not go into the trigger guard and make contact with the trigger.

[kmrtnsn]

SIG Sauer has managed for a couple of decades to build a safe P Series pistol without a grip safety or a safety on the slide or frame. HK has managed to do so as well with the LEM triggered USP's and P Models without a trigger safety like the Glock and XD. SIG, Glock, and HK have sold tens of thousands of these pistols to departments and agencies who haven't requested a safety lever. You don't need a safety lever to make a safe pistol.

[beastfrog]

...so it is more snag resistant. ...From what I tried, it was easier to activate the trigger on the M&P by snagging it on the lower portion of the trigger.

Are you concerned with reholstering? If so, consider a mag safety version. Eject mag, reholster, then reinsert mag.

[ToddG]

You've heard of the new-fangled invention "Glock" right? If one of the most popular pistols in the world operates the same way and there hasn't been a huge uptick in AD/ND's since it was introduced nearly 30 years ago, why would this be an issue?

That's a huge (and in my experience incorrect) assumption...

SIG Sauer has managed for a couple of decades to build a safe P Series pistol without a grip safety or a safety on the slide or frame. HK has managed to do so as well with the LEM triggered USP's and P Models without a trigger safety like the Glock and XD. SIG, Glock, and HK have sold tens of thousands of these pistols to departments and agencies who haven't requested a safety lever. You don't need a safety lever to make a safe pistol.

In fairness, there is a significant difference between a SIG (TDA or DAK) and HK (TDA or LEM) trigger compared to a Glock or M&P. The SIGs and HKs have substantially longer trigger pulls, at least for the first shot.

Years ago, part of the FBI firearms instructor manual included a study that proved it was trigger pull length rather than weight that really helped reduce the number of ADs. That part of the manual was excised at the same time the Bureau adopted Glocks. Purely by coincidence, I'm sure.

I am not suggesting that the M&P or Glock triggers are inherently unsafe. But it's not a black-or-white thing, and there's no question that pistols with shorter trigger pulls and no manual safeties are cutting the margin of error.

[1911pro]

I've read of people experiencing rusty slides, especially cc without a sweat shield. This strikes me as a big issue considering the materials and surface treatment.

30in1, by "nobody knowing why" I assume you mean nobody at S&W can remedy the failure to lock back?

My M&P9 had some rusting issues on the slide. Sent it back to Smith and they replaced it. No more rusting issues. Mine has been perfect for about 1500rds. No FTF. No functional issues what so ever. My buddy runs the same gun with no issues. I like it so much I purchased a second.

[John_Wayne777]

I'll pipe in too:

The closest I've ever come to shooting myself in the ass has been with striker fired guns that have no manual safety. I've come perilously close once because of a light lanyard that got stuck in my holster somehow.

While Glocks and M&P's are safe to carry, there are some drawbacks to a weapon with a short-pull 5 pound trigger and no manual safety that those who chose to carry them should be aware of and plan around. I carry an M&P daily and it doesn't trouble me any...but I also realize that the margin of error with my daily carry gun is pretty narrow so I try to handle it with as many precautions built in as possible.

EDIT --

Vid of just such an event happening: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=323_1219180711

[ToddG]

My point was that a safe functional pistol could be had without the inclusion of a trigger safety device, a la Glock or XD, or a frame/slide mounted firing pin safety to be a usable "safe" pistol, that there are hundreds of thousands out there in daily police service lacking such devices.

Absolutely. It's all a matter of how close you want to cut the margins. A trigger pull, for instance, that is perfectly safe in your holster or when you're calm at the range might be too light when it's dark, wet, and cold while you're trying to come fully awake at 2am.

And for those who might not already know, the trigger safety on most striker-fired handguns is part of the drop safe mechanism... it is not intended as a "manual" safety in the same sense as a thumb safety or grip safety. The trigger safety (whether hinged like the M&P or a blade like the Glock) prevents the trigger from moving backwards under inertia in the event the pistol is dropped muzzle-up.

I am constantly befuddled by people's claims to the contrary. In selecting a (purposely misleadingly named) "Safe action" you are making a trade-off. The gun is substantially easier to shoot--especially for beginners. But the safety margin is narrowed.

As a buddy of mine likes to say, Glocks are perfect guns for perfect people.

I've come perilously close once because of a light lanyard that got stuck in my holster somehow.

Which is a major benefit of using a hammer-fired gun, if you holster it properly.

But the flipside, of course, is exactly what JW777 said: if you're going to carry a gun that is a little less inherently anti-stupid, you simply need to be more cognizant about what you're doing. It's just like disassembling a Glock. It certainly can be done safely -- half a bazillion people do it each day -- but it's far less forgiving of mental lapses.

[CaptainDooley]

That's a huge (and in my experience incorrect) assumption...

Sorry if that's incorrect, I haven't ever seen/found reports or statistics to the contrary. Obviously you are in a much better position than I to know the skinny on this, so I defer to your knowledge. If there is some data out there showing a rise in AD/NDs, I'd love to see it.

[Littlelebowski]

I believe some NYPD cops had NDs while disassembling Glocks and of course, blamed the company and sued.