Bug Out Vest

[kmrtnsn]

I am of the mindset that if I am E&E'ing from one place to another I am not looking like escaped Blackwater contractor on the run. Plain, small COMMERCIAL backpack, like a Camelbak Trans-alp, hidden handgun, etc. Move light, move fast, move unnoticed. Wearing a multi-mag vest, chest rig, or any other piece of gear that is even remotely tactical in appearance is going to draw undue attention to one's self; never good. Be it the police, the national guard enforcing martial law, or the thugs doing smash and grabs on the corner, better to go unnoticed, looking like you have nothing of value and presenting no threat.

[zushwa]

Okay, I read Josh's posts a couple times last night and now. Worth the read, methinks, but I've a couple related questions/thoughts.

When Josh described "bugging out", it sounds like his idea is to get from an area without sustaining gear to one with sustaining gear, am I right? Which means you carry whatever the absolute bare minimum you can to get to said area in as timely a manner as possible. Distance and time become a pretty important concepts here.

1) How long do you expect to be bugging anywhere?

2) How far do you expect to be bugging anywhere?

Can anyone explain to me why a vest would be a better idea than a school pack? Would the pack not be less conspicuous and carry more than what's described in the opening posts? Do you know how to use the stuff in a first aid or blow-out kit?
Rifle mags imply a rifle: any plan on how to remain inconspicuous while carrying a rifle?


-B

Good questions, and definitely points to consider.

Yes, the assumption of MOVING being the priority is correct. In this discussion we're talking about a couple tools (a vest or some other cover garment and/or a small bag) that are highly portable and easy to incorporate with each other, as well as other tools like a backpack, armor, etc. From my background, if we were using the SERE acronym; (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) then we would be placing the emphasis on the Evasion.

How far and how long?? Good questions. From some of the members involved in this discussion it sounds like the AO's vary significantly so the parameters will too. I personally don't plan my kit on anything more than 24-48 hours. That's me, and my needs. That's also predicated on my level of training and abilities.

I don't think there are many circumstances where that is an unreasonable timeframe for most realistic situations for the most of you either. Some of you that live in really remote areas might extend that but I'm trying to keep the concepts for the masses. The "how far" part might be anything from "across the street to occupy a house until a QRF arrives" to "I'm 15 miles from home during a power outage and traffic is deadlocked". There are plenty of circumstances that we can "what if". I'm trying to keep it somewhat realistic.

So why a vest instead of a pack?? Another good question. I don't know. I don't know if it is. I think the merits of a vest.....let me clarify, any outer garment...outweigh a pack, but it does present some advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages of a garment:

easy to stow
easy to wear in a vehicle
works in conjunction with another pack or bag
provides easy access to items
provides concealment and potentially shelter

Advantages of a pack:

carry more shit
easy to grab

I can't think of anything else specifically that the bag has the advantage except for the ability to carry more shit. Not that I'm not trying, and to be honest I still would take a small pack or bag with me. I just think a garment as a sort of "first line plus" that can greatly enhance my true first line, but also work well with a second line.

Still no pictures. I'm a slacker. Truth be told this discussion has me fine tuning my set-up. Soon, I promise. It's nothing special but maybe it will give you guys some ideas.

Later,

[zushwa]

I didn't address a long gun in the previous post. I will. I want to post the risk versus reward of a long gun, the circumstances that might help us make that decision, and how we might go about keeping a low profile if we do choose to carry one.

Just not this post......

[BAC]

Good insight, and thanks for responding. For what it's worth, the 1-2 day thing is also what I had in mind when entering this discussion.

Right now I can't help but think that a support-role outer wear would only be useful if A) I'm carrying a long gun I need to support, and B) climate/weather permits. Bear in mind that I'm speaking as a civilian with no formal rifle training, and that I've never served as a LEO or in the military.

Another advantage of the pack would be that it can store whatever garment you choose to support you, as well as it's most likely lower profile than wearing said garment would be (AO-dependent; jackets stick out in Florida summers, for instance). Since commercial school packs can carry any garment (say, a chest rig, vest, or even a bandoleer) as well as any other stuff you might need, and is less-dependent on your AO, the pack seems to me to be the better choice if picking between the two.

If I thought I was going to get into a gunfight then yeah, I'd absolutely want to be using a rifle instead of a pistol. Problem is I can't carry and conceal a rifle like I can a pistol, and I don't have a rifle small enough or pack long enough to carry a rifle even broken down.


-B

[SoDak]

Good insight, and thanks for responding. For what it's worth, the 1-2 day thing is also what I had in mind when entering this discussion.

Right now I can't help but think that a support-role outer wear would only be useful if A) I'm carrying a long gun I need to support, and B) climate/weather permits. Bear in mind that I'm speaking as a civilian with no formal rifle training, and that I've never served as a LEO or in the military.

Another advantage of the pack would be that it can store whatever garment you choose to support you, as well as it's most likely lower profile than wearing said garment would be (AO-dependent; jackets stick out in Florida summers, for instance). Since commercial school packs can carry any garment (say, a chest rig, vest, or even a bandoleer) as well as any other stuff you might need, and is less-dependent on your AO, the pack seems to me to be the better choice if picking between the two.

If I thought I was going to get into a gunfight then yeah, I'd absolutely want to be using a rifle instead of a pistol. Problem is I can't carry and conceal a rifle like I can a pistol, and I don't have a rifle small enough or pack long enough to carry a rifle even broken down.


-B

I'm starting to lean to the same conclusion you have. I think I fell into the trap of thinking I needed to combine zombie fighting gear with bug out gear. I would guess there is a time for that. For me some sort of extended patrol vest might make sense for my situation provided I get home, but a molle vest probably wouldn't be low enough profile for much else. I think the vest idea came from "I have a bunch of these molle vests. Besides carrying mags, what else can I do with them?".

The more I think about it, while I'll have to get to work on a small BOB, the best thing I can have for a bug out situation is a full tank of gas in my truck and try to get out early if something happens. Not a great plan, but considering I'm going to college right now( that means no gun for me) and my home is about 120 miles away, I can't imagine walking there is much of a plan either(especially in the winter).

[Rooster15]

My gear is set up for worst case where I can still be mobile on foot. No car just heel toe express. The vest is a Backup IF I'm seperated from my pack which has gear to get me home on foot.Katadyn water filter,moutainhouse meals,3600 calorie mainstay bar, extra clothes,small pocket rocket stove,tarp etc. The "Altoids fishing kit" is for the vest If I lose the pack at least I'll have something to try to get food. Instead of trying to shoot some small game and telling everyone "Hey,I'm over here" It's 38 miles from work(big city) to home(country) which is where I grew up. That means traveling mostly in wooded areas and near waterways. I also carry a small pocket survival water straw in the vest and would be second line gear like everything else in the vest. The vest is only a backup not my first line gear.

[Outlander Systems]

I didn't address a long gun in the previous post. I will. I want to post the risk versus reward of a long gun, the circumstances that might help us make that decision, and how we might go about keeping a low profile if we do choose to carry one.

Just not this post......

Definitely where I'm at is determining whether a shoulder-fired weapon is mandatory or extraneous in a SHTF/I'm on foot situation.

Anyone ever consider, if you do kick rocks wearing a combat rig, to just throw a "your favourite sports team" rain poncho on for the sake of inconspicuousness? Of course, if it's 97 degrees with a relative humidity of 85+ percent, and burning sunshine, you might just appear deranged...

Trying to figure out how to have one's cake and chow on it too...

[zushwa]

Gentlemen,

I'm going to start a new thread called LONG GUN AND MOVEMENT CONSIDERATIONS in this same sub forum. I think it's a subject that needs its own attention. I'd like to discuss when and why we would take a long gun as well as why we might leave it. I'd also like to discuss how we might transport it. I think discussing that dilemma might have bearing on the current discussion, as well as potentially a bigger picture of bugging out, alamo'ing up, and our general game plan.

Any complaints?

[rob_s]

I think that's a good idea Josh. It's one of those fantasy-land things that I don't think a lot of people have really thought through. However, it's somewhat inter-related to this topic in terms of what you might stick in the vest for support of a long gun or leave out of the long gun isn't part of the plan.

[Outlander Systems]

This thread has made me wonder about the usefulness of a "Battle Belt".

Simply enough magazines for possible contact, first aid kit, and light.



Maybe something I might want to try and assemble. The further I delve into matters, the further I want to shave off weight.