Which one would you rather have in a self-defense situation, SHTF, combat, war...whatever: a pistol capable of being carried cocked & locked (like the 1911, CZ-75, USP..), or a pistol with a decocker (like the M9, P226...)?
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Which one would you rather have in a self-defense situation, SHTF, combat, war...whatever: a pistol capable of being carried cocked & locked (like the 1911, CZ-75, USP..), or a pistol with a decocker (like the M9, P226...)?
Member
Neither. I would rather have a striker fired, safe action pistol.
But that is only because the only formal training that I have had with a pistol, was/is with the Glock. I have been carrying a Glock for the last 15 years.
Member
I meant condition 2 not 3.
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As you learn more about pistols and examine their use for serious social purposes you'll discover that a well trained user can use practically any pistol well enough to get the job done, and that each type of operating mechanism brings its own particular advantages and disadvantages to the table.
Glocks, for example, are really quick to get into action because there are no safety mechanisms in the way of pulling the trigger. It's easy to make one go bang when you want it to. The downside to a striker fired pistol with no manual safety and a ~ 5.5 pound trigger is that it's easy to make it go bang if you don't want it to. With good training, development of safe handling practices, and sane equipment choices you can minimize the downsides of the platform.
My main carry platform is the M&P...a striker-fired pistol with a ~ 5.5 pound trigger. It's reliable, affordable, fairly easy to support, and I shoot it well. If tomorrow it was mandated that I carry a DA/SA pistol like a Beretta 92, S&W 5906, or Sig P226, I would be just fine with it. If it was mandated that I carry a 1911 I'd be just fine with it. If it was mandated that I'd have to carry a P30 with the LEM system, I'd be just fine with it. While all of those options may not be ideal for me in every way, with the proper dedication to training I can run any of them with a sufficient level of proficiency.
Some individuals may find that some systems are inherently easier to use than others, but for the majority of people proper training and practice will be more important in becoming proficient than the features of X vs. Y.
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For concealed carry, I have a Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II .45ACP in Condition 3. I don't trust the thumb safety for Condition 1.
What happens if the unthinkable occurs and I'm stripped of my gun? It gives me a few more seconds knowing that the pistol is not in Condition 1, and the bad guy doesn't know it.
I train/practice for CC Condition 3, pulling/racking and then shooting two round volleys (except for Round 7) walking briskly backwards from 5 to 25 feet. All trigger pulls are generally A shots, and all 7 rounds are fired within about 3 seconds. With the grip laser, I don't ever look down the sights.
If I was a LEO, I'd full-time carry my M&P FS9.
Senior Member
TellcomTodd,
3 seconds is an ETERNITY. That being said, if you are more comfortable carrying that way, good on you. Personally, I want my defensive weapon to be as ready as possible with as little action required to get it in the fight. I carry a 1911, cocked and locked. I can't remember now where I saw it, but there's a video about action within 21 feet. It doesn't take a whole lot more than a second and a half to close 21 feet. That's twice as fast as your draw to fire. That's assuming they are using a weapon that requires closing the distance on you (tire iron, knife). If they have a gun, and have any sort of familiarity with it, not to mention the benefit of surprise (if they are engaging you), you are already behind the curve. Now, better marksmanship and training may come to your aide if they miss, but that's a whole lot of "if's".
I'd personally rather have a defensive pistol with nothing more than "assess, draw, aquire, BANG!" if it were me. There's just simply not enough time to work the action, especially if it's an in your face sort of engagment. If they occupy one of your hands, your pistol is nothing more than a blunt object to beat them with.
Time flies when you throw your watch.
Senior Member
I'm certainly not a pistol guru, nor a gunfighting guru. But I know a few...and not one thing in this post would fly with them.Originally Posted by Telecomtodd
If you don't trust your gun to be loaded, perhaps you need to find one that you do trust.
Considering that you carry concealed, the chances of a bad guy getting your gun are slim...until you consider the fact that you're giving him oodles of time to grab it while you sit there and decide to get ready to fight.
Why "two round volleys?" What if it takes one? Or five?
What if you can't walk backwards without falling in a ditch or walking into a wall? What if for whatever reason the footwork in your life or death scenario doesn't exactly match what you're training for?
You don't EVER look down the sights? Really? Wait...really?
Last edited by thopkins22; 08-23-09 at 20:29. Reason: Trying to be a nicer person....
Banned
This is absurd.
Walking backwards? Whatever will you do when you can only move sideways due to obstacles? Or what would you do if your only way out is to advance on your attacker?
Screwing around with your weapon in close quarters combat IS inviting someone to take it away from you and killing you with it, or them killing you with theirs which is ready to go from the draw.
7 shots in three seconds? Can you score all seven that quickly on a real adversary, as in a force on force drill? My bet is that you cannot.
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+1
I tend to prefer a gun like the SIG 226 because that is what I'm most familiar with.
It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.
Chuck, we miss ya man.
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Member
I like either a SAO or DAO (spare me with the "safe action" crap, it's a DAO with marketing). I want the same, consistent trigger pull shot to shot. Whether I have to snick off a safety or not, I have no preference really. I just like the up-safe, down fire mechanism and try to stick with that.
Currently I carry a 1911 cocked and locked or a H&K P7 PSP round chambered (squeeze grip, squeeze trigger). Have carried a double action revolver and a Glock (30 with 4.5lb connector) before.
I get a kick out of the guys that hate to carry autos chambered but will carry a revolver with a full cylinder.
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