Condition 1 vs Condition 3 for Fight

[ThirdWatcher]

As you learn more about pistols and examine their use for serious social purposes you'll discover that a well trained user can use practically any pistol well enough to get the job done, and that each type of operating mechanism brings its own particular advantages and disadvantages to the table.

I agree. I own Glock and H&K pistols, but my constant companion is a cocked and locked 1911.

[Alpha Sierra]

I get a kick out of the guys that hate to carry autos chambered but will carry a revolver with a full cylinder.

Really. All they do is display their ignorance over how modern handguns work.

[xray 99]

An S&W factory rep told me that some corrections agencies liked the S&W autos with a magazine disconnect. The officer would chamber a round and remove the mag to stymie a prisoner attempting a gun grab. If the gun was needed, all the officer had to do was insert the mag.

When I transported prisoners to the hopsital, etc, the officer handling the inmate was unarmed and the armed officer kept a respectful distance.

[lowspeed4u]

ok, I just have to say it because the orginal post said "Combat"; I would rather not have a pistol and have a rifle maybe my issued M4 with 77 grain OTM, and the pistol in the holster condition 1 w/ decocker on fire because I just don't want to play with it. If I had my way I would carry my glock all the safeties are dis-engaged as I pull the trigger. and I get 17 rounds of 9mm instead of 15 with the M9.

Ok, off my soap box. I would rather have the pistol in Condition 1 you just never know when you might have to grab the guy with one hand and shot 9-10 rounds into his guts. and racking it off his face would just take to much time. and give my plan away from a concealed carry.

[ToddG]

Properly performed, the speed of one's draw -- or more precisely, the speed to the first shot -- should not be affected by the length or weight of the trigger pull. At least, it isn't going to be nearly as big a factor as other fundamental parts of the technique. Folks who are "slower" with DA/SA guns, etc., normally don't do a proper press out as part of the drawstroke.


(image used completely without permission from byrong.com)

In the above photo, you can see that my finger moves to the trigger as soon as my front sight is on the target. I'm refining my sight picture and pressing the trigger as the gun moves so that at the moment right before I'm at full extension, the hammer is almost all the way back.

What will affect your first shot speed is the condition of your weapon. If you carry your gun without a round in the chamber, you've chosen to disadvantage yourself in a number of ways:

• Your draw will be slower. (link to actual timed test)
• Your draw will normally need both of your hands to be free.
• If you only have one hand free, the speed of your draw will be substantially slower than under the same circumstances but having a chambered round.
• If you're in the middle of a wrestling match or otherwise not clear to move your body and arms freely, you may not be able to rack the slide at all (especially if you're doing it one handed).
• Racking the slide provides an opportunity for you to induce a malfunction, especially under stress, especially at very close distances, especially one-handed.

Any time your planned response to a surprise life-threatening violent dynamic encounter involves a multi-step process that has to work out "just so" ... it is time to reassess your planned response.

If carrying a gun chamber empty is the only way you're comfortable carrying a gun, I'm not going to tell you to turn in your man card. But you owe it to yourself to learn more about (1) the mechanical operation of your pistol's safety systems and (2) proper shooting & gun handling techniques. Hopefully, with a little time and effort, you'll know why so many people go apeshit when they hear about chamber-empty/"Israeli" carry.

And knowing is half the battle!

[averageshooter]

Not all people have the luxury/choice on how they can carry a firearm.... Some places of employment only let you carry a firearm specific ways. Do I like how I have to carry? ABSOLUTELY NOT. But what choice does one have? I know MP's used to have this issue. Not sure about now though.

Now when I carry away from work? Round chambered and safety off, finger is off the trigger

Matt

[BT2012]

Which one would you rather have in a self-defense situation, SHTF, combat, war...whatever: a pistol capable of being carried cocked & locked (like the 1911, CZ-75, USP..), or a pistol with a decocker (like the M9, P226...)?

Irfan,

It does not matter which pistol you choose and how you carry it so long as you are comfortable and trained for it. Every person has different needs, choices or preferences for self-defense, SHTF or whatever situation you happen to be in. I own and shoot Glock, H&K, Sig, S&W and 1911s but I have to practice with all of them so when I do carry any of those, I will remember how each functions. If you decide to carry a pistol without a round in the chamber, then it is imperative your situational awareness have to be at peak to allow yourself time to react to seek cover and chamber a round to be prepared to engage.

[Ed L.]

If you decide to carry a pistol without a round in the chamber, then it is imperative your situational awareness have to be at peak to allow yourself time to react to seek cover and chamber a round to be prepared to engage.

I agree with what you said about situational awareness. But you typically don't have the time or space to get behind cover before chambering a round when dealing with typical street muggings and assaults.

A whole program of instruction has been developed from various people including Kelly McCann to a narcotics officer who teaches under the pseudonym of South Narc to deal with close range attacks with the handgun. It is hard enough to do when you have a gun with a round in the chamber, forget about it unchambered. You are typically shooting from a one-handed close in retention position while the other hand may be striking or tying up the attacker.

Also there is a practical problem with trying to "seek cover to chamber a round to be prepared to engage." In modern American life you must pass withing relatively close distances of a lot of suspicious people in aituations like going to and from your car. You don't have the time, space, or opportunity to duck behind cover and chamber a round every time you spot someone suspicious or are approached by them.

[Ed L.]

There has been a major recognition in the last few years that situation requiring the use of a handgun often occur at very close range where doing something like fully extending your shooting arm may place the gun in a position where it can be grabbed or diverted by your attacker.

Most lethal force encounters that involve carrying a gun occur at contact distance or just beyond it.

Here is a reason why it makes tactical sense to keep a round in the chamber with a news item that documents it. If the woman in the story below did not have a round in the chamber she would be dead because she would not have had the time or opportunity to chamber a round.

http://www.thetimesonline.com/articl...ba00002243.txt

"Thursday, October 9, 2003 12:07 AM CDT


BY DEBORAH LAVERTY
Times Staff Writer

MERRILLVILLE -- A 28-year-old Gary woman said she knew what it meant Tuesday when she noticed the man holding a gun to her head was wearing gloves.

She figured she was going to die.

"I've called police on him before. He's tried to threaten me and my entire family. ... He was going to kill me," she said. "He's a friend who wanted to be more than a friend, and it's not possible."

But, the outcome of the incident took a turn when the woman pulled out her own 9 mm pistol and shot her abductor in the mouth, police said.

The woman, whom The Times chose not to identify, remained shaken Wednesday afternoon and said she hoped the three-hour ordeal would be the end of seven months of harassment.

The 24-year-old Merrillville man who allegedly abducted her was taken to The Methodist Hospitals Northlake Campus in Gary, Merrillville police Detective Cmdr. Tim Wardrip said. His condition was unavailable Wednesday, and Wardrip said he had not been arrested or charged. The incident remains under investigation.

The identity of a second man, who fled when the shooting took place, is not known at this time, Wardrip said.

The woman said she was sitting in her car about 9 p.m. at CVS Pharmacy, 5301 Broadway, when two men in another vehicle blocked her car from moving.

A security officer came out of the pharmacy, and the men moved their vehicle, she said. But once the security guard went back inside the building, the men allegedly blocked her vehicle again and forced her into their car at gunpoint.

She said they then drove to an isolated wooded area in Gary and parked, with one of the men continuing to point a gun at her head.

While they were still in the car, a man came out of a nearby house and approached the vehicle.

She said while her abductor rolled down the car window and was momentarily distracted, she pulled out a handgun she had on her hip.

"I shot him and took his gun," the woman said.

"I keep my gun on my hip, and I had it where I could ease it. It paid off. I had one in the chamber so I was able to get one round off," she said.

The woman said she started carrying the gun because of the harassment involving her abductor during the past seven months. She said she believes the man was wearing gloves because he intended to kill her and didn't want to leave fingerprints behind.

She said time seemed to be standing still during the incident and she prayed to God to take control of the situation.

After the shooting, she said she grabbed the man's gun and ran to a nearby house in the 4200 block of Tyler Street to call police.

"It wasn't luck. I'm blessed, honestly blessed. It was God's grace. I had an angel with me," she said.

Gary police responded to the 11:55 p.m. call, but the case was turned over to Merrillville police because the abduction took place in Merrillville, Wardrip said."

[Alpha Sierra]

Why would anyone who carries a firearm for self defense as a private citizen do ANYTHING but carry with a fully loaded pistol in its highest state of readiness?

Why should any caveats be even given to suggest that it is even a remotely good idea to carry an unloaded pistol?

It just defies common sense and street sense.

I'll be blunt. If you are not comfortable carrying a certain firearm fully loaded (including one in the chamber) in its highest condition of readiness (cocked & locked, decocked and safety off, etc) the find another firearm that makes you comfortable. If you are not comfortable carrying any firearm that way, then don't carry one at all.