Accuracy vs. reputation - my CCW quandary

[Business_Casual]

It is pretty simple, in my opinion.

1) Take a decision to carry concealed and if necessary use it
2) Pick a duty-grade pistol (M&P, Glock, old SIG, Beretta, H&K)
3) Seek training with tier 1 operators who have experience in the subject matter
4) Practice
5) Keep training

It isn't the pistola - good shooters not platform specific. Will their split times be faster with platform A vs. platform B? Perhaps, but when you do not strike me as having reached the level where that is applicable.

M_P

[rrpederson]

respectfully, i agree with the last guy. the fundamentals of marksmanship do not rest with the weapon. speaking from 20 years of shooting experience, pick a high quality weapon. unfortunately, cz and baby eagle line of guns are just not duty grade weapons. choose a weapon that is carried by a police department or military. one that is comfortable and one that u can easily work the controls. then. as stated before buy as many rounds as u can afford, and shoot. shoot as much as u can. ask around for different types of techniques u can try. the point is, just shoot.

[John_Wayne777]

The main question I have though for this thread can be distilled into a simple question I guess: How much weight should be given to how a gun shoots for you in the decision on a carry piece?

That depends on where your skill level is. I'm a mediocre shooter at best. I could spend from now until doomsday buying a new handgun every week and I will still be a mediocre shooter. While some weapons may hinder my performance and some may be slightly easier to shoot, with the best fit from a handgun that I can find I'll still be mediocre.

If I want to improve it will involve spending more time, money, and effort on training with a decent platform.

I've gone through the buy a million guns looking for the "right" one phase, and it sucked. It would have been much cheaper to set out some basic criteria for a concealed carry gun, buy one that fit my requirements, and then dedicate all my time and attention (and money) to training and practice. (Heavy emphasis on TRAINING first)

Find a gun that meets your needs. If your needs are a general purpose handgun that can serve as a concealed carry piece and a home defense gun, etc, there are some good options on the market. M&P's are my personal choice for those functions, but 9mm Glocks and the really neat new H&K P30 work well in those roles too. Look at those options including spare magazines, carry gear, etc and find out what fits your requirements and budget the best.

Then make the purchase and train, train, train. Get into some good handgun training (Larry Vickers' basic handgun courses are phenomenal) and then practice what you've learned. If you do that you'll be better off than 90% of the people who are carrying handguns right now.

[vel525]

respectfully, i agree with the last guy. the fundamentals of marksmanship do not rest with the weapon. speaking from 20 years of shooting experience, pick a high quality weapon. unfortunately, cz and baby eagle line of guns are just not duty grade weapons. choose a weapon that is carried by a police department or military. one that is comfortable and one that u can easily work the controls. then. as stated before buy as many rounds as u can afford, and shoot. shoot as much as u can. ask around for different types of techniques u can try. the point is, just shoot.

new hear, so still learning. why is cz not considered a duty grade weapon? understand it is not used by any US LEO or military, but wasn't the P01 extensively tested and NATO approved? i also thought some military in Europe carried the P01.

again, not trying to start a semantics war or anything, just wondering why cz (i guess in this case, specifically the P01) would not be considered duty grade.

[vaglocker]

CZ IS duty grade, but are unfortunatley the Rodney Dangerfield of the American gun community.

[Business_Casual]

new hear, so still learning. why is cz not considered a duty grade weapon? understand it is not used by any US LEO or military, but wasn't the P01 extensively tested and NATO approved? i also thought some military in Europe carried the P01.

It has to do with market share, really. All pistols break and have their problems but certain ones have massive support systems behind them that reach all the way down to the local hardware store in the boondocks that has Glock magazines on the shelf or Beretta springs in the back room.

It is already hard enough to find parts and magazines for guns, why make it harder by picking one that doesn't have a well-developed distribution channel? And before you answer that you can buy everything online, think how long that will last after they ban import of that particular model or if you spent thousands of $$ to go to Front Sight and need your recoil spring replaced - not going to arrive before the class ends, is it? There are months of inventory in the M&P aftermarket channel, how many months of inventory is there for CZ P01 trigger springs? Does anyone other than CZ make parts for them? What about holsters, mag pouches and grip tape? Do you have the money to acquire spares at reasonable prices or will you try to stretch parts replacement another month while you pay off the credit card?

It really has little to do with being "better" (outside of the testing that FBI or DHS, DoD, etc. has done) and more to do with utility.

Stop spending 99% of your time wondering about grip angles and safety placement.

As JW777 noted, most shooters are terrible and try to convince themselves it is the gun and not them. I did that dance, wasted that money; and I'm suggesting you can avoid it.

M_P

[vaglocker]

certain ones have massive support systems behind them that reach all the way down to the local hardware store in the boondocks that has Glock magazines on the shelf or Beretta springs in the back room.
M_P

While I agree that Glock has a larger (American) market share (and I am a member of that market), the only place I can get Glock magazines locally is at a gun store which is also likely to have CZ 75 mags. As far as springs etc.. for my Glock I would still need to send away for them. So at least in my area the Glock and CZ are about equal support wise.

[Business_Casual]

While I agree that Glock has a larger (American) market share (and I am a member of that market), the only place I can get Glock magazines locally is at a gun store which is also likely to have CZ 75 mags. As far as springs etc.. for my Glock I would still need to send away for them. So at least in my area the Glock and CZ are about equal support wise.

Awesome, you've convinced me with your sample size of one. I will ignore the millions of Glocks, Berettas and Smith and Wessons in the country. I was a fool to try to save that guy the headaches and wasted money of chasing the perfect pistol.

M_P

[JSantoro]

Have you considered spending money on training instead of a pile of second-rate pistols?

That's beautiful, man. *single tear*

[vaglocker]

Awesome, you've convinced me with your sample size of one. I will ignore the millions of Glocks, Berettas and Smith and Wessons in the country. I was a fool to try to save that guy the headaches and wasted money of chasing the perfect pistol.
M_P

I'm not sure what you think I was trying to convince you of other than the fact that I'm not aware of a " local hardware store" in my area that stocks Glock magazines and parts; therefore the "lack of support" argument doesn't hold much water. Now, if you were arguing which was more expensive to support I would definately say the CZ.

The OP said he shoots the CZ style weapons better. With durability being about equal (IMO) between his choices why not choose a CZ?