What makes an HK an HK?

[Pappabear]

I own two HK pistols and I like them very much. I know they are considerably more pricey than my XD's or Glocks. I was curious from the HK experts, where is the extra quality or cost in mfg. I was reading the HK sticky and it made me ponder.

Some other questions bothering me about my HK45 & P30L:

How good can the trigger jobs be on these guns?
Would you get a trigger job on a carry gun?
I saw a post by Vickers, didn't really understand it, so what should I do to make these guns perfect?

[Business_Casual]

Would you get a trigger job on a carry gun?

Only if I felt I had already been shooting a stock gun as well as it could be shot.

M_P

[dobe]

I have found both the DA and SA on the P30 to be more than satisfactory. The HK45 has a pretty good SA, buth the DA on mine and others has a lot of creep in it. For a carry or SD handgun, I prefer a slightly heavy trigger, so I don't have a problem with the weight, it's the creep.

I'll eventually send my HK45 off for a trigger job.

[loupav]

I think the extra money goes to re-coup the cost of research and development. In the past 20 years how many new guns as HK designed and released?

[ToddG]

I own two HK pistols and I like them very much. I know they are considerably more pricey than my XD's or Glocks. I was curious from the HK experts, where is the extra quality or cost in mfg. I was reading the HK sticky and it made me ponder.

A variety of things affect the cost.

On the quality/coolness side:

• exclusive agreement with steel manufacturer for unique barrel steel
• every gun is independently proofed twice as well as extensively test fired
• probably the highest level of QA in the industry
• As loupav pointed out, HK has substantial R&D expenses compared to most other companies. First modern striker-fired handgun? HK. First polymer handgun? HK. Etc.

On the "it just costs more this way" side:

• Germany sells guns to the US part of the company at a profit. Then the US part of the company has to sell them at a profit to distributors. Then distributors sell them at a profit to dealers. Then dealers sell them to you at a profit. That extra step of profit gets compounded at every other step along the process.
• HK makes a lot of things in-house that other companies farm out, such as their magazines. They maintain closer QA/QC but lose economy of scale benefits.
• The guns are fairly complicated to assemble (c.f., Glock) and are assembled in a country where skilled workers get paid a lot. Time * cost of labor is therefore high.

How good can the trigger jobs be on these guns?

Depends on your point of reference. Even a skilled 'smith can't make an HK feel like a 1911.

Would you get a trigger job on a carry gun?

Requoting m_p's outstanding answer: Only if I felt I had already been shooting a stock gun as well as it could be shot.

I saw a post by Vickers, didn't really understand it, so what should I do to make these guns perfect?

Practice with them and get some professional training, then make modifications as necessary to overcome any shortcomings in the gun that aren't shooter-induced.

[dobe]

I'm certainly happy with my HKs.

[JBnTX]

..... I was curious from the HK experts, where is the extra quality or cost in mfg. I was reading the HK sticky and it made me ponder.......

They cost more because they're worth more.
You pay for quality.

[sigmundsauer]

Most over-the-counter HKs have been subject to an import tariff because HK proofed, assembled, and shipped the complete pistol to the U.S., while other companies ship parts and let their U.S. counterparts assemble and conduct QA/QC, or lack thereof.

Yes, it costs more.

Tim

[Army Chief]

I appreciated Todd's summation, though it is probably worth noting that the economic overtones in play here don't necessarily follow any conventional logic -- at least, none that we are likely to find familiar. For example, nothwithstanding the profit margin factors in play between HK GmbH and HK USA, the fact is that HKs are even more expensive (by a rather wide margin) in Germany. The 19% sales tax surely isn't helping in that regard, but even when that is factored out, there are no discounts for the home team, and none are expected.

As for what makes HKs more expensive in a broader sense, I would say that German firearms follow the same trend that we see in German automobiles. The Wal-Mart mentality is something that is noticeably absent in German culture, and as such, there is no real concept of "good enough." Value is seen as a component of quality and durability, rather than price and availability.

Applying this thinking to the production of durable goods, if a tool or machine would perform best for the longest period of time using x-grade steel, then that is what will be used, even if it costs twice as much. Where we might typically assign three engineers to a given project, the Germans would probably assign 10. If production processes are deemed to require new tooling and/or x-number of separate operations, then that is what will be directed, without calls for cheaper work-arounds or alternative methods. If taking things to this level means that it takes twice as long to build, and only half as many can be built, then that it simply the way it will be. Anything less would simply be nicht im ordnung.

Why does an HK cost more? Well, some of it is just economics, but a lot of it is simply the consequence of working with better materials, placing more emphasis upon engineering and design, and making sure that the finished product is precisely what it was intended to be. In this, it is a perfect reflection of the German mentality. Think it's just an HK thing? Take another look at what Walther and SIG-Sauer were up to in the 70s, 80s and 90s before they got entangled with US co-production arrangements.

AC

[RogerinTPA]

AC hit the nail on the head about the German mindset. They are notorious for quality over quantity, often over-engineering any specific product. The part about the absence of the "WalMart" mentality in German society is spot on. That probably explains why German built HKs are more highly prized and more expensive than their US HK counterparts.