Is my department issuing .223 "hunting" rounds???

[BrianC]

My police department just revised their policy to allow patrol officers to carry their personally owned carbines on duty, which is great because they currently issue Vietnam era rifles with no optics and no white lights. I was issued my duty ammo on Friday and they gave me Remington Express Power-Lokt .223 55GR HP. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that primarily a hunting round? I have not been able to find any ballistic testing or intermediate barrier testing by Dr. Roberts for this particular round.

After reading the various threads from Dr. Roberts, I plan on purchasing my own ammo (providing my department will approve it), and I am looking at either Federal LE Tactical Bonded (LE223T3) or the Speer LE Gold Dot Soft Point (24448). My barrel is a 16”, 1:8 twist. Will I have any problems stabilizing those rounds?

Should a metropolitan police department be issuing the Remington Power-Lokt .223 55GR HP round for duty? By the way, the last officer involved shooting we had included the officer shooting two suspects through their vehicle's windshield. The last SWAT involved shooting included team members shooting a suspect, through the window of his house. Therefore, I think we have to consider intermediate barrier performance in our city.

[Molon]

After reading the various threads from Dr. Roberts, I plan on purchasing my own ammo (providing my department will approve it), and I am looking at either Federal LE Tactical Bonded (LE223T3) or the Speer LE Gold Dot Soft Point (24448). My barrel is a 16”, 1:8 twist. Will I have any problems stabilizing those rounds?

By the way, the last officer involved shooting we had included the officer shooting two suspects through their vehicle's windshield. The last SWAT involved shooting included team members shooting a suspect, through the window of his house. Therefore, I think we have to consider intermediate barrier performance in our city.

You shouldn't have any trouble stabilizing these bullets with a 1:8" twist barrel. The groups pictured below were fired from an AR-15 with a 1:7.7" twist barrel.


64 grain Gold Dot





LE223T3





Both of the above rounds offer good performance after barriers such as auto glass. The data below is from Dr. G.K. Roberts.

[wake.joe]

Deleted

[tpd223]

Both the Remington load Brian asked about, and the V-Max bullets, do very poorly when glass gets in the way of the bullet.

Brian, I'm guessing the 55gr load you are asking about will do 6-8" in bare gelatin. I haven't seen that particular bullet tested, but similar BTHPs that I have seen tested were in that range.

It is a "hunting" load, as in varmint hunting. You are on the right track with the Bonded or Gold Dot.

[firecop019]

Our department rifles have the same core lokt ammo. Chief is convinced that it's the best their is. Those that bought their own rifles have went with Hornady 75gr duty rounds.

We've had to pick our battles, hopefully the next qualification we'll get those shot up and convince him to go with something different. Go get the latest stopping power book, it has a really good write up on .223 duty rounds. Or Doc might have some info for you if you need help getting it by the brass.

[Iraqgunz]

Brian,

Have you considered 5.56 Hornady TAP 75gr.? I think Hornady is resuming individual officer sales. It is also still floating around out there.

[BrianC]

You shouldn't have any trouble stabilizing these bullets with a 1:8" twist barrel. The groups pictured below were fired from an AR-15 with a 1:7.7" twist barrel.


64 grain Gold Dot





LE223T3





Both of the above rounds offer good performance after barriers such as auto glass. The data below is from Dr. G.K. Roberts.

Molon, why the disparity between group sizes? Did you shoot both ammo on the same day out of the same rifle? I would have thought the Federal would provide a tighter group than that.

[BrianC]

Both the Remington load Brian asked about, and the V-Max bullets, do very poorly when glass gets in the way of the bullet.

Brian, I'm guessing the 55gr load you are asking about will do 6-8" in bare gelatin. I haven't seen that particular bullet tested, but similar BTHPs that I have seen tested were in that range.

It is a "hunting" load, as in varmint hunting. You are on the right track with the Bonded or Gold Dot.

Thanks tdp223. There is such a wealth of good information on this website. Prior to studying the various sticky threads in "Terminal Ballistic Information", I didn't have a clue as to what makes up a good duty round.

[rjacobs]

Brian,

Have you considered 5.56 Hornady TAP 75gr.? I think Hornady is resuming individual officer sales. It is also still floating around out there.

Seconded on the Hornady TAP 5.56 75gr. From all the research I have done it is about the best thing out there for duty ammo, at least in 75gr form. I haven't done much research in anything lighter.

Hornady(at least the lady I have been talking to) said individual purchase should start up spring 2010 as her best guess from what she has been told. She sent me a list of about 5 or 6 LEO distributors who could get it for me, it ships direct from them to the final customer.

[BrianC]

Brian,

Have you considered 5.56 Hornady TAP 75gr.? I think Hornady is resuming individual officer sales. It is also still floating around out there.

I had not considered Hornady TAP 75gr, mostly because I have no experience with it, and I didn't see any intermediate barrier performance reports in any of Dr. Roberts posts. I am certainly not opposed to Hornady TAP. I know it is a very popular LE round. Maybe I should read up on this round. Any idea of what is sells for per case to an individual officer? My LE distributer does not carry Hornady ammo.

Thanks for your recommendation Iraqgunz.