New "Hypercav" bullet design

[They1]

Thanks for the response and thanks for the compliment.

The guy who sells Duncan's book (Shawn Dodson) is here on the forum. Contact him if you have trouble ordering the book.

If he's out of copies I think I've got a spare book around I don't mind parting with.

Worldskipper.

No need for thanks...you earned it.

I'd like to get that copy from you, where are you located, how much do you want for it? (It's used, you know...)

[worldskipper]

Steady there Haus'

https://www.m4carbine.net/member.php?u=3013

Contact Shawn first see if he has any copies left. Last time that book went out of print it was going for $150 on Amazon. So I'm not turning loose of my extra book until he's run out (plus I've got to find it).

Used.
Ha.

Seriously, if he's out I'll send you contact info and we can work something out.

-I picked up an extra copy to see if a do a little horse trading with John Linebaugh, but his eyes glazed over when he looked through it, so I've still got it

Funny I see that same look when another engineer flips through my water wave mechanics.

[They1]

Steady there Haus'

https://www.m4carbine.net/member.php?u=3013

Contact Shawn first see if he has any copies left. Last time that book went out of print it was going for $150 on Amazon. So I'm not turning loose of my extra book until he's run out (plus I've got to find it).

*$150? geez...you'd have to take financing.

Used.
Ha.

*Hey, can't blame a guy for trying...

Seriously, if he's out I'll send you contact info and we can work something out.

-I picked up an extra copy to see if a do a little horse trading with John Linebaugh, but his eyes glazed over when he looked through it, so I've still got it

*I know that look. I think I've been an "offender" now and then...

Funny I see that same look when another engineer flips through my water wave mechanics.

*Actually, I'd be interested to see you water wave mech. studies.
"Hydrodynamics" or aka the pure study of "chaos and order".

I've spent about half my life at sea in one fashion or other...

[MK108]

Dear They1,

...very interesting...

...thank you for sharing!

...some questions...

...have the channels through which the air is evacuated particular shapes/dimensions to prevent choking?

...the drawings about the behaviour comparison between your bullet design and conventional bullet design depicted your ideas about what happens during these different bullets penetration in soft tissues or depicted the results from your experimental tests?


All the best
Andrea

P.S.: please, excuse me for my bad english!

[They1]

Hi Andrea.
I'll respond in-line with your original text...

Dear They1,

...very interesting...

...thank you for sharing!

...some questions...

...have the channels through which the air is evacuated particular shapes/dimensions to prevent choking?

*If I understand your question, that is an aspect we're looking at.
The possibility exists that with the reduced "pressure" needed to exchange mediums, that bullet cavity opening can be smaller, thus reducing the plugging issue.

...the drawings about the behaviour comparison between your bullet design and conventional bullet design depicted your ideas about what happens during these different bullets penetration in soft tissues or depicted the results from your experimental tests?

*Could you clarify this question please? Thanks!
-They

All the best
Andrea

P.S.: please, excuse me for my bad english!

[They1]

FYI: We updated/corrected the calculations on the website. Should be informative.

New photos are being done by Oleg Volk. We'll post them as soon as they're done.

He's one of the premier photographers in the industry.

http://olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms

[MK108]

Dear They1,

thank you for your reply...

when I wrote:

"have the channels through which the air is evacuated particular shapes/dimensions to prevent choking?"

..I did not mean the plugging by tissues but the choking because the high velocity air flow alone....as used in some tubular training rounds to reduce the maximum range...

...about the second question...on soft tissues penetration your bullet behaviour depicted in the colours drawing(..as in page 1..) is the one you obtained experimentally or is your target?

...I need to tell you that I am a bit skeptical about the difference in terminal bullet behaviour because the compressed air... using your interesting data in "The technology" page....I guess that all other things being equal a variation of about 2 m/s from round to round in the same box of ammunition is a very good variation for pistol round ammunition (Molon is certainly more accurate than me..)....so if the bullet in your example has a velocity of 259 m/s the next bullet fired can have 261 m/s for example...and the KE variation is about 1.6%...so about twice the work done to compress the air in your example...

All the best
Andrea

P.S.: please, excuse me for my bad english!

[They1]

*****

Dear They1,

thank you for your reply...

when I wrote:

"have the channels through which the air is evacuated particular shapes/dimensions to prevent choking?"

..I did not mean the plugging by tissues but the choking because the high velocity air flow alone....as used in some tubular training rounds to reduce the maximum range...

*Ah, I see what your asking; The diameter of the ports themselves, and the angle relative to the bullet/cavity, (90 degrees) have a negligable aerodynamic effect on overall flight characteristics, given a particular manufacturers original design specs. This, coupled with boundry layer interaction, shows a minimal effect on overall performance to date.

...about the second question...on soft tissues penetration your bullet behaviour depicted in the colours drawing(..as in page 1..) is the one you obtained experimentally or is your target?

...I need to tell you that I am a bit skeptical about the difference in terminal bullet behaviour because the compressed air... using your interesting data in "The technology" page....I guess that all other things being equal a variation of about 2 m/s from round to round in the same box of ammunition is a very good variation for pistol round ammunition (Molon is certainly more accurate than me..)....so if the bullet in your example has a velocity of 259 m/s the next bullet fired can have 261 m/s for example...and the KE variation is about 1.6%...so about twice the work done to compress the air in your example...

*Your interpretation is correct. Very perceptive!
However, I might add that while these figures establish "baseline" fundamentals, one should always factor in the variable dynamics inherent to real-world conditions. The result of this acknowledgement suggests two basic points;
1. that porting, or "burping" a bullet can only enhance the expansion process over a wider set of conditions, and 2., nothing is perfect.

In ALL things, I always consider the "Chaos within the Order", and vice versa.

At the very least, we know beyond doubt that every bullet expends some energy in order to overcome air compression. As shown in the 'technology' page calculations, in the example of the Speer Gold Dot 135gr .38+P, it's .84%.

Again, while you can look at this as a "hard" number, the true ramifications are "what other 'by-product' reactions are an either direct or indirect result?"

I call it "flexible physics".

OT: Taking a guess here, I can't help noticing the 'structure' of your text. It would suggest a European base? Italy perhaps?




All the best
Andrea

P.S.: please, excuse me for my bad english!

[WS6]

I think a qualified lab shooting gelatin and measuring the "neck" would be in order, however, just looking at these pictures, I fail to see this long neck you are talking about before expansion takes place with conventional JHP's.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/.38%20Sp...P%20SWCHP.html

The old .38 special Nyclad rounds looks to have fully expanded in under 2 inches. Ergo, based on the drawings on your website depicting full expansion in 1-2" as the goal with your modified projectile, you hope to do nothing more than replicate the old Treasury load.

If your claims are accurate, your modification will allow 2-3# more energy to go towards penetration/target disruption rather than overcoming air resistance. I fail to see where this is a cost-effective gain, if it is correctly calculated.

Put me in the skeptic's corner, as I see you just re-inventing the wheel if your claims are accurate about your projectile's performance. Of course, if you can prove me wrong with un-biased testing, throw up an order form on your website. You will get some of my money.

PS> Looked at the photos the photographer took that you linked us to. Awesome work. If he does your product photo's it might give Rainier Arms a run for their money, lol (I always like buying stuff from them. Good photos let me see what I am getting and answer questions without resorting to the phone, etc.)

[They1]

I think a qualified lab shooting gelatin and measuring the "neck" would be in order, however, just looking at these pictures, I fail to see this long neck you are talking about before expansion takes place with conventional JHP's.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/.38%20Sp...P%20SWCHP.html

The old .38 special Nyclad rounds looks to have fully expanded in under 2 inches. Ergo, based on the drawings on your website depicting full expansion in 1-2" as the goal with your modified projectile, you hope to do nothing more than replicate the old Treasury load.

If your claims are accurate, your modification will allow 2-3# more energy to go towards penetration/target disruption rather than overcoming air resistance. I fail to see where this is a cost-effective gain, if it is correctly calculated.

Put me in the skeptic's corner, as I see you just re-inventing the wheel if your claims are accurate about your projectile's performance. Of course, if you can prove me wrong with un-biased testing, throw up an order form on your website. You will get some of my money.

PS> Looked at the photos the photographer took that you linked us to. Awesome work. If he does your product photo's it might give Rainier Arms a run for their money, lol (I always like buying stuff from them. Good photos let me see what I am getting and answer questions without resorting to the phone, etc.)

Interesting you cite Brassfetcher. We're setting up to have hime do some independent testing, and DocGKR to do a full FBI protocol series in the near future.

I'm really looking forward to see the results of Olegs' work! He "claimes" he could make even me look good...lol. There's a challenge...