Mods to my issued M4

[RetreatHell]

I can completely understand some CO's reluctance to allow any of their soldiers/marines to make any mods to their issued weapons, as some PFCs would strap on some cheap ass hunting scope that their meager salary can afford and that POS would lose its zero quickly and also be easily damaged within the first week probably in A-stan.

But as long as whatever the individual is buying either has an NSN and/or is considered good to go for combat operations by those who have already used them extensively in very bad places around the world (Magpul stocks and grips, Larue Mounts and FUGs, Aimpoint T-1 Micro RDS, Daniel Defense Omega rails as well as high quality, true free floating rails that a trained armorer could install, etc..), then I really don't see why they would have any objections to these upgrades.

To be completely honest, if I could do it all over again, I would've bought an aimpoint RDS (among MANY other things) before I deployed for the initial invasion of Iraq in 2003. If someone told me to take it off, I'd say, "Roger that, sir/Staff Sergeant/Corporal!" But as soon as they walked away I would've put that bitch back on. If I would've been threatened with an NJP or something more severe, oh ****ing well! I'm the one who's going to be using my rifle in combat, so I want my shit to have the best upgrades I can afford that make me more deadly.

There was always a saying in the Marines: "If the Corps didn't issue it to you, then you don't need it." That's bullshit and I hate that mentality! I also hate the whole, "the Marine Corps has always done more with less than any other branch," and, "we don't need all that high-speed shit the Army has."

The Marine Corps has always prided itself on the fact that we always have the shittiest and oldest gear compared to the Army. But there are so many better options out there when it comes to the gear and accessories that Marines (and Soldiers) are issued. So if I were a Marine or Soldier going into harms way today, I would buy anything on my own that the military didn't issue me that I thought I needed. I'd buy a shit-ton of PMAGs, a Larue forward universal grip and QD mount for my issued optic (or if I could afford it, or had enough available on my CC, I'd just buy a aimpoint T-1 and Larue Tall mount combo, as well as the 3X magnifier in larue flip to side mount), Magpul CTR stock/MOE grip/enhanced trigger guard, Surefire X300 or the new mini Scout weapon light, either a Troy or KAC 600m folding rear BUIS, and I'd probably buy both a VCAS 2-point sling and a Magpul MS2 sling w/ASAP plate just to have a variety (or whatever your favorite sling is).

As far as the rail, after reading this thread I'd most likely do exactly what the OP did, as it's a GREAT idea in my opinion! I think it's awesome that you found a way to work around the option you had and made it better in every way. Good job, brother!


Take care everyone and Semper Fi,

-Paul

[Belmont31R]

I can completely understand some CO's reluctance to allow any of their soldiers/marines to make any mods to their issued weapons, as some PFCs would strap on some cheap ass hunting scope that their meager salary can afford and that POS would lose its zero quickly and also be easily damaged within the first week probably in A-stan.

But as long as whatever the individual is buying either has an NSN and/or is considered good to go for combat operations by those who have already used them extensively in very bad places around the world (Magpul stocks and grips, Larue Mounts and FUGs, Aimpoint T-1 Micro RDS, Daniel Defense Omega rails as well as high quality, true free floating rails that a trained armorer could install, etc..), then I really don't see why they would have any objections to these upgrades.

To be completely honest, if I could do it all over again, I would've bought an aimpoint RDS (among MANY other things) before I deployed for the initial invasion of Iraq in 2003. If someone told me to take it off, I'd say, "Roger that, sir/Staff Sergeant/Corporal!" But as soon as they walked away I would've put that bitch back on. If I would've been threatened with an NJP or something more severe, oh ****ing well! I'm the one who's going to be using my rifle in combat, so I want my shit to have the best upgrades I can afford that make me more deadly.

There was always a saying in the Marines: "If the Corps didn't issue it to you, then you don't need it." That's bullshit and I hate that mentality! I also hate the whole, "the Marine Corps has always done more with less than any other branch," and, "we don't need all that high-speed shit the Army has."

The Marine Corps has always prided itself on the fact that we always have the shittiest and oldest gear compared to the Army. But there are so many better options out there when it comes to the gear and accessories that Marines (and Soldiers) are issued. So if I were a Marine or Soldier going into harms way today, I would buy anything on my own that the military didn't issue me that I thought I needed. I'd buy a shit-ton of PMAGs, a Larue forward universal grip and QD mount for my issued optic (or if I could afford it, or had enough available on my CC, I'd just buy a aimpoint T-1 and Larue Tall mount combo, as well as the 3X magnifier in larue flip to side mount), Magpul CTR stock/MOE grip/enhanced trigger guard, Surefire X300 or the new mini Scout weapon light, either a Troy or KAC 600m folding rear BUIS, and I'd probably buy both a VCAS 2-point sling and a Magpul MS2 sling w/ASAP plate just to have a variety (or whatever your favorite sling is).

As far as the rail, after reading this thread I'd most likely do exactly what the OP did, as it's a GREAT idea in my opinion! I think it's awesome that you found a way to work around the option you had and made it better in every way. Good job, brother!


Take care everyone and Semper Fi,

-Paul

We had a guy put a cheap BSA red dot on his SAW, and it would not keep zero for shit. So yes I do completely understand the mil not wanting open season with mods and parts being put on guns.

The only way to do this properly is only NSN items and no permanent mods to the weapons. If someone wants to buy their own optic that is already in the system then they should be allowed to. I bought an EOTech and 2 ACOG's to use while deployed. I would have been pissed if my CO said to take them off because they are not issued to me. I also bought my own KAC M5 rail for my M16A4 as well as a Surefire M900.

[lawusmc0844]

I can completely understand some CO's reluctance to allow any of their soldiers/marines to make any mods to their issued weapons, as some PFCs would strap on some cheap ass hunting scope that their meager salary can afford and that POS would lose its zero quickly and also be easily damaged within the first week probably in A-stan.

But as long as whatever the individual is buying either has an NSN and/or is considered good to go for combat operations by those who have already used them extensively in very bad places around the world (Magpul stocks and grips, Larue Mounts and FUGs, Aimpoint T-1 Micro RDS, Daniel Defense Omega rails as well as high quality, true free floating rails that a trained armorer could install, etc..), then I really don't see why they would have any objections to these upgrades.

To be completely honest, if I could do it all over again, I would've bought an aimpoint RDS (among MANY other things) before I deployed for the initial invasion of Iraq in 2003. If someone told me to take it off, I'd say, "Roger that, sir/Staff Sergeant/Corporal!" But as soon as they walked away I would've put that bitch back on. If I would've been threatened with an NJP or something more severe, oh ****ing well! I'm the one who's going to be using my rifle in combat, so I want my shit to have the best upgrades I can afford that make me more deadly.

There was always a saying in the Marines: "If the Corps didn't issue it to you, then you don't need it." That's bullshit and I hate that mentality! I also hate the whole, "the Marine Corps has always done more with less than any other branch," and, "we don't need all that high-speed shit the Army has."

The Marine Corps has always prided itself on the fact that we always have the shittiest and oldest gear compared to the Army. But there are so many better options out there when it comes to the gear and accessories that Marines (and Soldiers) are issued. So if I were a Marine or Soldier going into harms way today, I would buy anything on my own that the military didn't issue me that I thought I needed. I'd buy a shit-ton of PMAGs, a Larue forward universal grip and QD mount for my issued optic (or if I could afford it, or had enough available on my CC, I'd just buy a aimpoint T-1 and Larue Tall mount combo, as well as the 3X magnifier in larue flip to side mount), Magpul CTR stock/MOE grip/enhanced trigger guard, Surefire X300 or the new mini Scout weapon light, either a Troy or KAC 600m folding rear BUIS, and I'd probably buy both a VCAS 2-point sling and a Magpul MS2 sling w/ASAP plate just to have a variety (or whatever your favorite sling is).

As far as the rail, after reading this thread I'd most likely do exactly what the OP did, as it's a GREAT idea in my opinion! I think it's awesome that you found a way to work around the option you had and made it better in every way. Good job, brother!


Take care everyone and Semper Fi,

-Paul

Oohrah I feel the same way! Not to get off topic, but will share this real fast. For my first deployment back in 06 my Sgt. told me not to take my Spec-Ops Brand Overvest with me because "its not issued". My other Sgt said "don't listen to him because he won't be with you over there" I did the latter because its MY MONEY and not everything the gov issues to us is the greatest (like the MOLLE II FLC in this case.)

At least now the Marine Corps actually issues some good stuff but that won't keep me from buying what I feel will help me do my job over there.

I feel good now as a Sgt. myself, I'm the go-to guy for tactical gear and guns in my section. I bought a shit load of PMags from Bravo Co. for my buddies that recently deployed to Afghanistan. I know they will handle the abuses of combat better than some of the worn out GI mags that a few had. Hopefully one day they will become standard issue...

[justin_247]

OP- I take it you had to remove (disassemble/cut off) the front hand guard cap @ the FSB?

Answers to this anybody?

[BrianS]

But if someone else gets involved, I am basically Ronin and will pay the price.

What is the penalty for that?

[MistWolf]

Please forgive my complete ignorance as I have no clue. What was wrong with the issue KAC rail? What advantages & improvements does the DD Omega rail have?

[eagle5]

Answers to this anybody?

In an email conversation with the OP, he mentioned that he kept the handguard cap in tact (required to convert back to the issued setup) but had to relieve the rail to accomodate the cap. He said the end result was very thin in that area and it wasn't pretty looking, but it worked for his intended purposes.

[TehLlama]

IIRC from the time that I spent working with Marine 2111's the KAC rails could only be installed and removed by the armorer.

You are correct, but try telling that to my idiot brass who had us removing top rails so we could clean the inside of the rails.
... same idiots who tried to get me to remove my QD swivel attachment, XTM panels and BAD lever.

Forgiveness is better than permission in this case - anytime you're sticking with NSN items and quality parts, I wouldn't worry; those regulations are intended to keep Lt's and PFC's from installing NC Star optics, knockoff stocks and modifying FCG components.