Taurus PT1911, feasible 1911 for defense?

[operator77]

If we new shooters are to discount reviews of Taurus pistols due to the ad space they purchase in gun magazines, do we apply the same to Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Para USA, and Kimber?

I can honestly say this is a sore spot for me, since I am new to gun ownership and culture, as well as limited in my funds (law enforcement in my state remains a low paying job) It seems that, according to every Gunshop, forum, and armchair Rambo, every gun I've purchased EVER, has been a piece of crap: my Colt LE 6920 should have been a piston driven Daniel defence. My Taurus pt99 should have been a Baretta 92fs, (which is also said to be inferior, and hence should be a Springfield XD(m) ) and my Taurus PT1911 should have been anything but...

I honestly mean no offence in my rant, and I know full well this forum, and by extension, lifestyle is one of the "gearhead" mentality, but to equate with cars; Not everyone drives a mustang. Yes a mustang can far out perform a Honda accord, but they both get you to work...

As for my Taurus? Both pistols are over the 2000 round mark, with no problems I haven't had with my service weapon (S&W M&P40)

... But I am taking donations from those who believe I'm ill equiped, so that I can order an Ed Brown Special Forces Bobtail...

[TOrrock]

Operator77, when someone makes a gear recommendation here, it's not about getting personal about someone's purchase or choice, it comes from actual experience and history with a company or piece of kit.

Like I said in my previous post, if you buy a Taurus, it's not a guaranteed piece of shit, but the likely hood of getting one that is going to let you down is much higher than it should be.

There are plenty of good choices for defensive handguns that are in the $500 ballpark (Glock, M&P, Beretta 92FS), or even less if you find a good used piece.

I'd also highly doubt you'll have anyone telling you that your choice of a Colt 6920 was a bad one....

Again, people get tied up with personal emotions over gear instead of just looking at it dispassionately.

So, anyway, welcome to M4C, take a look around and enjoy.

[C4IGrant]

If we new shooters are to discount reviews of Taurus pistols due to the ad space they purchase in gun magazines, do we apply the same to Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Para USA, and Kimber?

I can honestly say this is a sore spot for me, since I am new to gun ownership and culture, as well as limited in my funds (law enforcement in my state remains a low paying job) It seems that, according to every Gunshop, forum, and armchair Rambo, every gun I've purchased EVER, has been a piece of crap: my Colt LE 6920 should have been a piston driven Daniel defence. My Taurus pt99 should have been a Baretta 92fs, (which is also said to be inferior, and hence should be a Springfield XD(m) ) and my Taurus PT1911 should have been anything but...

I honestly mean no offence in my rant, and I know full well this forum, and by extension, lifestyle is one of the "gearhead" mentality, but to equate with cars; Not everyone drives a mustang. Yes a mustang can far out perform a Honda accord, but they both get you to work...

As for my Taurus? Both pistols are over the 2000 round mark, with no problems I haven't had with my service weapon (S&W M&P40)

... But I am taking donations from those who believe I'm ill equiped, so that I can order an Ed Brown Special Forces Bobtail...

Gun ads in magazines are just that. Ads. They do not mean that the weapon is a quality one.

Gunwriters typically give GLOWING reviews on guns because they get them for FREE. Also, most gunwriters know next to nothing about guns (or look at the technical specs of a gun and understand what makes a quality gun a quality gun).

So ignore gun ads and gunwriters reviews (generally).

Where to go for REAL reviews of stuff. Well that can be a hard one. One of the things I do a lot is talk to instructors that see a lot of guns go through their classes. This has always worked out well for me.


Is every Oly AR or Taurus pistol a lemon? Of course not. Can you get one of those guns to run well for you? Sure can. You always have to look at the law of averages. How many guns have gone to say 5,000rds in a year? Not that many.

Another thing you can look at is LARGE federal and state LE organizations. Which gun did they choose? Does the FBI use ANY Taurus products? No.

For combat guns (1911), I would stick with WC and EB (or have a well know custom 1911 builder make you one).

For combat guns (polymer), I would stick with Glock, HK and S&W.

For combat guns (metal), I would stick with S&W, SIG (older ones), CZ, HK, and Beretta

For AR's, I would stick with: Colt, Noveske, BCM, CD, S&W, KAC, DD.



C4

[HK45]

Yes. I would not buy anything based on a mag review or ad. There is quite a difference between the brands you mention by the way. I would not own a Kimber or Para and they are at least a level below Wilson or Brown.

If we new shooters are to discount reviews of Taurus pistols due to the ad space they purchase in gun magazines, do we apply the same to Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Para USA, and Kimber?
... But I am taking donations from those who believe I'm ill equiped, so that I can order an Ed Brown Special Forces Bobtail...

[John_Wayne777]

If we new shooters are to discount reviews of Taurus pistols due to the ad space they purchase in gun magazines, do we apply the same to Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Para USA, and Kimber?

Yes. Adds are next to meaningless. An exception would be if company X took out an add announcing that their model Y had just won a large contract with agency Z after a grueling and comprehensive testing regimen. That would have some value to the consumer.

I can honestly say this is a sore spot for me, since I am new to gun ownership and culture, as well as limited in my funds (law enforcement in my state remains a low paying job) It seems that, according to every Gunshop, forum, and armchair Rambo,

Basically you're talking about unqualified opinions. There are indeed a great number of people out there who are not the least bit bashful about sharing an opinion that exceeds their level of experience by a considerable margin. Internet forums and gunshops are often primary offenders in that category.

M4Carbine.net is a bit different as there are a number of people here with backgrounds and experience that can be verified. Here you'll find a mixture of law enforcement, military, and civilian enthusiasts who put, on average, considerably more rounds downrange every year than you'll find on most other forums.

every gun I've purchased EVER, has been a piece of crap: my Colt LE 6920 should have been a piston driven Daniel defence.

Which should be a clue about the background of the person saying such a thing. In reality the 6920 is the standard by which all other carbines are measured. While every specimen of 6920 isn't perfect, the materials and QC that go into the 6920 are objectively superior to the QC and materials that go into a lot of other rifles on the market. Daniel Defense makes a carbine that, in my opinion, competes nicely with the 6920 by offering the same quality plus some desirable enhancements...but their guns are DI and not piston.

My Taurus pt99 should have been a Baretta 92fs, (which is also said to be inferior, and hence should be a Springfield XD(m) ) and my Taurus PT1911 should have been anything but...

Now there is a great deal of truth in this, whether the people offering the opinion had the background to back it up or not. The simple truth is that I have an easier time coming up with specimens of Taurus semi-autos that didn't work than coming up with ones that do work. My formerly favorite gunstore sent LOTS of pistols back to Taurus for major function issues...some of which were never resolved.

...and that's only the people who bothered to shoot the pistols. A great many more did not. To many people a handgun purchase could be mounted behind glass with "BREAK IN CASE OF EMERGENCY" written on it. They are treated much like those dust covered fire extinguishers who were last inspected in 1987 that we've all seen at least once in our lives. I have an uncle, for example, who purchased a .380 Beretta sometime during the Nixon administration. Earlier this year he finally finished off the 50 round box of FMJ ammo that he bought with the pistol. In his experience, his Beretta and the .380 cartridge it fires is great because it's exceeded his needs all these years.

The point is that his experience is exceptionally limited. I've personally put a little over 10,000 rounds downrange through a handgun this year, and I'm on the very shallow end of the pool on this site.

As for my Taurus? Both pistols are over the 2000 round mark, with no problems I haven't had with my service weapon (S&W M&P40)

Here's a key difference: Your M&P is built to have a service life of at least 20,000 rounds. Some parts replacement will be required at regular intervals, but in general that pistol should be good to go for at least 20,000 rounds of relatively trouble free, low maintenance service.

What's the intended lifespan of Taurus pistols?

In the AR market the 6920 is highly regarded because it's built with QC processes that are meant to ensure it works out of the box and it's made from materials that are designed to offer a long service life. Other guns may be cheaper and have better marketing, but when you consider them in aggregate next to 6920's in aggregate they won't offer the lifespan or quality of service that the 6920 (and similarly built carbines) offer.

The same is true in the handgun world. A $523.00 Glock 17/19/26 or $520.00 M&P 9/9C sitting in the gunstore display case is MUCH more likely to offer me a reliable, durable product with good customer service should I encounter a problem than the $510.00 Taurus 24/7, $490.00 PT-911, or $540.00 PT-1911 sitting in the same case. That's just the reality of it. The same is true of a LOT of other pistols in that display case from a number of other manufacturers...including the $1,185.00 Kimber 1911. (All real world prices from a gunstore visit yesterday)

... But I am taking donations from those who believe I'm ill equiped, so that I can order an Ed Brown Special Forces Bobtail...

I think a 1911 is a terrible idea for someone in your position. My personal experience with the 1911 (the 1911 was my go-to platform for a number of years) and what I've learned from 1911 experts like Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn has pretty much convinced me that 1911's are best suited for those who have lots of money, lots of time, lots of knowledge about the platform and making it function as a sidearm, and enough love for the 1911 that they are willing to put up with the headaches that come with the platform.

Generally police officers (especially those with families) don't have a lot of time most don't have an abundance of money, and damn few 1911 owners actually know how the 1911 works and what it takes to keep one running as a sidearm. (I carried one for years and THOUGHT I knew. I was wrong.) As such I would generally recommend to sticking with platforms that don't require as much investment and TLC as the 1911 platform requires. I would certainly advise against trying to get the benefits of the 1911 platform on the cheap. Trust me: I've tried it. It rarely works out.

[j3hill]

There is no such thing as a bad 1911 or 1991A1. Maybe with the exception of the Llama. Think of them as the modular handgun, like the AR platform. You can make them anything you want over time. It will cost you like a previous poster said, but dont do it all at once and you should be fine. Hell I got one of them Philippians ones from Centerfiresystems for 399.00 and it shoots just fine everytime. It is in a bug out bag that I put together for the wife under the spare tire in her Envoy. And the one pictured I got 25 years ago when I was 14 and is a combination Detonics/AMT with Wilson upgrades.

[John_Wayne777]

There is no such thing as a bad 1911 or 1991A1.

I must respectfully disagree because I've owned a couple of them...and no matter what I did to them I could not make them function properly. I finally ended up selling them at a considerable loss.

[William B.]

Hell I got one of them Philippians ones from Centerfiresystems for 399.00 and it shoots just fine everytime.

Philippians is a book of the Bible. They don't make 1911's

[ToddG]

Philippians is a book of the Bible. They don't make 1911's

But if they did, would it shoot Jewish ammo?
(sorry, couldn't resist...)

[William B.]

But if they did, would it shoot Jewish ammo?
(sorry, couldn't resist...)

I'm not sure... ask the guy with the "Philippian" 1911.