Optics for Self Defense and CQB: My thoughts and experiences

[jmart]

What kind of battery life do you get with it on all the time for CQB?

[USMC03]

Approximately 100 hours






Semper Fi
Jeff

[jmart]

I knew it was low compared to an EoTech, but I had no idea it was that low.

Any idea how battery life compares with other variable powered illuminated optics, e.g., Leupy 1.5-5X, NF 1-4X, IOR?

[Colt6920]

I knew it was low compared to an EoTech, but I had no idea it was that low.

Any idea how battery life compares with other variable powered illuminated optics, e.g., Leupy 1.5-5X, NF 1-4X, IOR?

None of those are daylight visible though.

If you think about it the 100 hr life is not that bad. Thats at least 3 days. Even then the batts are small enough to carry a few and not even notice it until you need them.

[jmart]

None of those are daylight visible though.

If you think about it the 100 hr life is not that bad. Thats at least 3 days. Even then the batts are small enough to carry a few and not even notice it until you need them.

I thought the Leupy SPR reticule was daylight visible, but I'm not up to speed about the others.

About the battery life, I've seen tons of threads where one of the main discriminators between EoTech and Aimpoint is 1,000 hours vs 50,000 hours. So if it's important at that level, I just don't understand why 100s (or 10s) of hours are acceptable for variable powered optics. Or is the protocol for variable powers to run them with the power off and only activate it when it's necessary?

At least with a variable you have a reticule available, albeit it's black. But if the illumination is what sets it above other conventional optics, then I would think the standard protocol would be to run them with illumination switched on all the time, at which point you are dealing with swapping batteries every couple of days. Just doesn't sound very desirable to me. There must be some additional features/benefits associated with variables that are so completely shit hot that folks are willing to overlook or tolerate the short battery life issue.

With an Eotech or Aimpoint the reticule is the illumination so you have no option, but their circuitry is such you get decent battery life -- months to years worth.

[USMC03]

Leupold MR/T 1.5-5x vs. Short Dot 1.1-4x


I have both the S&B Short Dot and the MR/T M2 1.5-5x.....Both are excellent glass.

The main advantage the Short Dot has over the MR/T M2 is that it (Short Dot) has an illuminated electronic red dot. This was a one of the prerequisites that I had when I was looking for a low powered magnification scope for SWAT work.

If you aren't going to be kicking doors, the MR/T 1.5-5 with SPR reticle is an excellent choice. The only reason I bought my Short Dots is because I didn't feel comfortable kicking doors with the MR/T.

The SPR reticle is extreemly quick at CQB distance targets (ie. daytime CQB stage at a rifle match), just put the big round circle on the target and press the trigger. The glass on the MR/T M2 is exceptionally clear, the reticle is very precise at longer distances. Down side is you can not see the lit reticle during the day.

2 weeks ago I was out shooting steel gongs (18" - 24") at 450 yards with the MR/T, the bullet drop comp dial works as advertised.

I have noticed that I can get tighter groups with the MR/T than I can with my Short Dots or ACOGs. This is due to both the reticle and the higher 5x magnification.

I experience very little occulation with the MR/T, it has generous eye relief, the SPR reticle is very quick on close targets at 1.5x and the inner portion of the of the reticle is fine enought to get very precise shots out past 500 yards because the reticle is thick enough to see, but not so thick that it covers up the target.

Is the S&B better glass? Yes, but at almost 3x the price. Does the S&B have better features? Depends on what you are using it for.

For almost 1/3rd the price, and for your intended use, the MR/T is probably the best bet.


I would not use the Leupold MR/T for home defense or on an entry gun.

Everything is give and take. You have to give up one thing to gain another. I am NOT as fast with the Short Dot as I am with the Aimpoint. BUT....I am giving up a little speed on the low end so I can have the magnificiation.

If I wasn't kicking doors, I most likely have not purchased the Short Dot.

In my line of work 75% of the missions are CQB and the other 25% can range from permiter work, to overwatch on a VIP detail, to searching large warehouses or schools, etc.

SWAT missions can often be dynamic in nature. One minute you can find yourself on a permiter trying to see if the barricaded gunman standing in the window has a gun or a cell phone in his hand, and the next minute you're being picked up as part of the entry team. On other missions you may find yourself sitting across a large parking lot covering a buy / bust operation, the bad guy goes mobile and now your part of a vehicle take down.


100 hours is not all that great, BUT.....it's about give and take. I'll put up with the short but acceptable battery life in order to see the electronic red dot in all lighting conditions (bright sun light, white light, etc).


It all comes down to *your needs*. Target / threat identification is very important in my line of work. A guy who uses his rifle for self defense may not have the same as a Law Enforcement Officer / Military.




Semper Fi,
Jeff

[jmart]

Everything is give and take. You have to give up one thing to gain another. I am NOT as fast with the Short Dot as I am with the Aimpoint. BUT....I am giving up a little speed on the low end so I can have the magnificiation.

If I wasn't kicking doors, I most likely have not purchased the Short Dot.

In my line of work 75% of the missions are CQB and the other 25% can range from permiter work, to overwatch on a VIP detail, to searching large warehouses or schools, etc.

SWAT missions can often be dynamic in nature. One minute you can find yourself on a permiter trying to see if the barricaded gunman standing in the window has a gun or a cell phone in his hand, and the next minute you're being picked up as part of the entry team. On other missions you may find yourself sitting across a large parking lot covering a buy / bust operation, the bad guy goes mobile and now your part of a vehicle take down.


100 hours is not all that great, BUT.....it's about give and take. I'll put up with the short but acceptable battery life in order to see the electronic red dot in all lighting conditions (bright sun light, white light, etc).


It all comes down to *your needs*. Target / threat identification is very important in my line of work. A guy who uses his rifle for self defense may not have the same as a Law Enforcement Officer / Military.




Semper Fi,
Jeff

Jeff,

Reading through this, I can definitely see why it works for you. I'm not knocking the Short Dot, I'm just trying to evaluate the features, benefits and limitations of what's available and making a proper choice for my needs. That being range days and defense within the home and my property. I don't envision pulling perimeter duty or kicking down a door and having to quickly acquire the meth head with the SKS on the other side.

I'm presently using an EoTech. I'm considering for my next build a Leupy CQT or Prismatic, or maybe a Burris Euro 1 - 4x.

Stay safe.

[USMC03]

Roger that. As I said, if I didn't have a specific set of *needs* for my work, I most likely would have never purchased a Short Dot. Great optic, but it's not the "end all, be all" optic.

Take a hard look at the Leupold MR/T 1.5-5x M2 or the ACOG TA11 over the CQT. You'll thank me later




Semper Fi,
Jeff

[jmart]

Negative on the ACOG.

The Leupy is a possibility, but scope + mount is creeping up above more than I'd like to pay. You know, some of us just aren't made of money like you SWAT cops!

[Zak Smith]

I recently had an opportunity to shoot the Short Dot at small targets from 400-700 yards. Target size was in the range of 10x12 (close) - 14x18" (far).

I found that at these distances and target sizes, it was hard to get a sight picture with the Short Dot (dot off) due to reticle clutter. And when I had to hold wind over 1 mil (most of the time in NM wind), it was basically impossible to see the target behind the reticle.

-z