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Thread: Optics for Self Defense and CQB: My thoughts and experiences

  1. #21
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    I'm not really that surprised given the low mag power and the distances you were shooting. That's asking a bit from a low powered optic, regardless of mfg.

  2. #22
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    I think the same issue would rear its head while using reticle holdover on smallish practical targets (like we shoot at the Pueblo Rifle Match).

    Repeating the same exercise with a 3-12x50mm PMII (ETA: at 4x of course) gives much different results, since the thin mil-hash reticle does not obscure the target.

    But I agree this is kind of out of the regular usage model.

    -z

  3. #23
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    Anyone tried the Bushnell 1x32 with lighted T-Recticles ? It sort of looks like an ACOG.



    Or maybe the smaller Bushnell


    God Bless our troops,
    and all the veterans that came before them.
    Thank you all for the sacrifice.

  4. #24
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    Great post USMC03!

    Always good to read what someone who's used a LOT of stuff in the line of duty thinks as opposed to guys like me, who may have a couple of the toys in their safes, but can only tell you what they think of them from our grueling hours on a covered bench rest...

    jim
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullets View Post
    Great post USMC03!

    Always good to read what someone who's used a LOT of stuff in the line of duty thinks as opposed to guys like me, who may have a couple of the toys in their safes, but can only tell you what they think of them from our grueling hours on a covered bench rest...

    jim
    Yes! Very well put.

  6. #26
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    I agree with much of what you said, especially using magnifiers on Aimpoints and EOTechs (though of course I haven't tried the EOTech magnifier), and your opinion of the CQ/T is spot on. A lot of the other stuff I haven't had much experience or time with or haven't scrutinized. I'm wondering why this post isn't stickied.

    Anyways, thanks for the run down. It isn't often you get to read about so many different optics from one person's viewpoint. Good Job and excellent post... Be safe!

  7. #27
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    Thanks!

    Great post! Just the kind of info I was looking for and especially coming from someone that has to trust their life to their equipment. It's posts like this and guys like you that make this the great site that it is.
    "Most standards are set low to accomodate the bottom feeders of life who lack the personal pride, motivation and determination to rise above the rest." - Paul Howe

  8. #28
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    I have to think that your choice of optics for a home defense rifle/carbine would depend to a great degree on how good you are at planning.

    If you have a perimeter warning system of some kind (alarm system, dog, tin cans and pebbles on a string, whatever), a planned response to an intruder, and have in fact practiced that plan until everyone involved is reasonably comfortable with it and knows what to do and where to go (even while half-asleep), you might be able to get away with an optic that requires some sort of activation (e.g. Eotech) or some semblance of conscious thought (e.g. anything with a lit or unlit reticle that requires cheekweld and eye placement). The early warning and the practiced plan MAY give you the seconds you need to OODA loop the threat even if you have the extra step of activating or acquiring a reticle thrown in.

    However, if you just have a rifle or carbine sitting by your bed, your shooting consists of banging steel plates at the local range and an annual deer hunt, and you're depending on your innate Spidey-senses to be able to fight with your weapon in the few seconds between the heart-stopping shock of hearing an intruder burst into your home and having the intruder on top of you, your only option is a constant-on red dot that requires no activation and is completely insensitive to cheek or eye position - as long as you can see the dot and the dot is on the target, you will hit the target. I think irons are a no-go in this situation because aligning the sights may be too fine a motor skill to ask for in the time available. Obviously, any optic that requires time to activate or acquire is also a no-go.

    Personally, I think the second scenario is just a recipe for disaster, but if you're going to squeeze off a round or two while semi-conscious and scared sh*tless, the optic of choice would have to be an Aimpoint. I suppose you could leave an Eotech on all the time if you were diligent about replacing the batteries every couple of weeks or so, but that would require planning...

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by caporider View Post
    I have to think that your choice of optics for a home defense rifle/carbine would depend to a great degree on how good you are at planning.

    If you have a perimeter warning system of some kind (alarm system, dog, tin cans and pebbles on a string, whatever), a planned response to an intruder, and have in fact practiced that plan until everyone involved is reasonably comfortable with it and knows what to do and where to go (even while half-asleep), you might be able to get away with an optic that requires some sort of activation (e.g. Eotech) or some semblance of conscious thought (e.g. anything with a lit or unlit reticle that requires cheekweld and eye placement). The early warning and the practiced plan MAY give you the seconds you need to OODA loop the threat even if you have the extra step of activating or acquiring a reticle thrown in.

    However, if you just have a rifle or carbine sitting by your bed, your shooting consists of banging steel plates at the local range and an annual deer hunt, and you're depending on your innate Spidey-senses to be able to fight with your weapon in the few seconds between the heart-stopping shock of hearing an intruder burst into your home and having the intruder on top of you, your only option is a constant-on red dot that requires no activation and is completely insensitive to cheek or eye position - as long as you can see the dot and the dot is on the target, you will hit the target. I think irons are a no-go in this situation because aligning the sights may be too fine a motor skill to ask for in the time available. Obviously, any optic that requires time to activate or acquire is also a no-go.

    Personally, I think the second scenario is just a recipe for disaster, but if you're going to squeeze off a round or two while semi-conscious and scared sh*tless, the optic of choice would have to be an Aimpoint. I suppose you could leave an Eotech on all the time if you were diligent about replacing the batteries every couple of weeks or so, but that would require planning...
    You'd better be already lying awake with your eyes degunked and focussed in that scenario. Because if you think you're going to be able to be awakened, get up, get eyes focussed and/or glasses on and get your weapon ready in a timely fashion, that's a tough scenario.

    I'm wondering for a pure house defense gun where ranges would be 25 yds and closer, whether or not a XS Big Dot front sight would be the ticket?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmart View Post
    You'd better be already lying awake with your eyes degunked and focussed in that scenario. Because if you think you're going to be able to be awakened, get up, get eyes focussed and/or glasses on and get your weapon ready in a timely fashion, that's a tough scenario.

    I'm wondering for a pure house defense gun where ranges would be 25 yds and closer, whether or not a XS Big Dot front sight would be the ticket?
    Kinda what I was saying, except you said it better.

    As for using any type of irons, going to a cheekweld and aligning the sights is tougher and takes longer than putting a red dot on a target. Eliminating the need for front sight focus also makes it much easier to keep both eyes open, and much easier for cross-dominant eye shooters (like me) to get a fast sight picture.

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