Optics for Self Defense and CQB: My thoughts and experiences

[Hootiewho]

I had read USMC03's post on another forum and totally agree with all that he says. I would add one thing, a good quality red or green laser on a Home Defense Weapon. If you have only enough time to grab up your rifle and not enough to turn on an Eotech, you can always light them up with the laser. This will especially be useful if your eyes haven't yet focused from waking up. Just a thought.

[greywolf2112]

Anyone tried the Bushnell 1x32 with lighted T-Recticles ? It sort of looks like an ACOG.



Or maybe the smaller Bushnell

I just recently got one of the smaller Bushnells for about $65.

Pros: Inexpensive, seems to be built decently, I like the choice of reticles, and the green/red.

Cons: Much smaller tube to look through than an Aimpoint or, my favorite, the EOtech. Don't know about toughness - seems like it couldn't take a pounding, I'm sure battery life is pretty weak (CR2032 battery).

But for the price (including 2 30mm rings for mounting) it is good for plinking.

[Nutnfancy]

I just recently got one of the smaller Bushnells for about $65.

Pros: Inexpensive, seems to be built decently, I like the choice of reticles, and the green/red.

Cons: Much smaller tube to look through than an Aimpoint or, my favorite, the EOtech. Don't know about toughness - seems like it couldn't take a pounding, I'm sure battery life is pretty weak (CR2032 battery).

But for the price (including 2 30mm rings for mounting) it is good for plinking.[br]

I too was looking at these. Went to Cabelas.com and read some reviews on it. Users there said changing the reticles changed the impact point. Anyone have any experience with this?


Thanks for the posts everyone.

[Heavy Metal]

I suppose you could leave an Eotech on all the time if you were diligent about replacing the batteries every couple of weeks or so, but that would require planning...

And you would have to turn it on every 4 or 8 hours as the EoTech has a time out feature.

4 for down arrow on and 8 for up arrow on.

[M193 BALL]

Jeff you are the man

I bought a AIMPOINt After talking to Chuck S. back around 7 years ago
And just love it! (updated to ML2 w/ 4moa)

It was mounted on my A1 carbine with GOOSENECK

But now the aimpoint/larue canti sits on my Defender 2000 14.5
SOPMOD,KAC RAS,KAC VFG, surefire,arms 40Lsp

I do like my Aimpoints to sit closer to FSB compared to my M4 defender

I also Have a Spare Bushy/VLTOR with LMT 14.5 M4 upper
I went with a EOTECH 551 1moa with circle


The Aimpoint To me is just Better made! Better water proofing and batt life and doesnt have several screws like My Eotech 551

I also shoot the same size groups with Both Carbines


I plan on buying a 1-4 Myself to REPLACE my 551Eotech

Ive been looking all over for several weeks

Still dont know? I keep comeing back to accupoint tr21 best bang for the buck as Grant states . and I did on the OTHER Forum.

I know I dont want a ILLUM reticle that wont work in the FL sun


is there any 1-4 that work in the bright sun that cost under 600 bucks

Too bad the VX3 LEU 1-5 wont do it

[UPSguy]

Very informative post Jeff, thank you. As some time has passed since you first penned some of your thoughs I have a follow up question. With the Larue pivot mount for the Aimpoint 3x magnifier, what do you think now of the comparision between a Short Dot and the Aimpoint combo?

[Zak Smith]

Might find this interesting:
Fighting Carbine Optics - A Short Guide

[USMC03]

Very informative post Jeff, thank you.

As some time has passed since you first penned some of your thoughs I have a follow up question.

With the Larue pivot mount for the Aimpoint 3x magnifier, what do you think now of the comparision between a Short Dot and the Aimpoint combo?

UPSguy,




I wrote the info posted above approximatley 18 months ago, at the time I purchased my S&B Short Dot's the (spring 2006), the LaRue pivot mount (#LT649) was not avalible on the civilian market. The thing that "turned me off" to the 3x magnifier (prior to the introduction of the LaRue pivot mount) is that the 3x magnifier had to be put on the gun or removed from the gun as needed. I needed an optic that stayed on the gun at all times.


***************************************************************
This was my though on the 3x magnifier prior to the release of the LaRue PIVOT mount:


In theory the magnifier would be an excellent choice, in reality it's not. Sometimes events can be so dynamic and situations can happen so quickly that you don't have time to fish around in a pouch for a magnifier, locate it, and then put it on the gun. Or if I had the magnifier in a pouch on my SWAT vest and I rolled on a bank robbery in progress, active shooter incident, etc. and had to deploy the carbine and didn't have a chance to don my SWAT gear then I'm without the magnifier.


I needed something that stayed on the gun and was easy to use. This is the reason you see so many military and law enforcement guys going over to variable powered optics.


***************************************************************


That being said, I have mentioned in conversations with friends over the last few months that the x3 Aimpoint Magnifier + LaRue Pivot Mount (#LT649) may be a good alternative for the S&B Short Dot (depending on the mission).

For me, 75% of my missions are CQB and the other 25% can range from permiter work, to overwatch on a VIP detail, to searching large warehouses or schools, etc.

I have used Aimpoint's in one form or another since 1999 - 2000, and still use them on a regular basis.

I recently received a LaRue Pivot Mount (#LT649) and will be getting a 3x Aimpoint magnifier in the near future. I am hoping this will be a good option for someone who wants to use the Aimpoint as their primary optic, but needs magnification from time to time. I'll post my thoughts on the Aimpoint + 3x Aimpoint magnifier in the LaRue Pivot mount once I get a 3x magnifier.





-Jeff

[markm]

For a home defense carbine I would suggest a simple carbine with iron sights and a white light. This is not the "coolest" answer, but it is probably one of the most practical.

I've been pooped on for having this philosophy for my HD carbine.

[caporider]

UPSguy,




I wrote the info posted above approximatley 18 months ago, at the time I purchased my S&B Short Dot's the (spring 2006), the LaRue pivot mount (#LT649) was not avalible on the civilian market. The thing that "turned me off" to the 3x magnifier (prior to the introduction of the LaRue pivot mount) is that the 3x magnifier had to be put on the gun or removed from the gun as needed. I needed an optic that stayed on the gun at all times.


***************************************************************
This was my though on the 3x magnifier prior to the release of the LaRue PIVOT mount:


In theory the magnifier would be an excellent choice, in reality it's not. Sometimes events can be so dynamic and situations can happen so quickly that you don't have time to fish around in a pouch for a magnifier, locate it, and then put it on the gun. Or if I had the magnifier in a pouch on my SWAT vest and I rolled on a bank robbery in progress, active shooter incident, etc. and had to deploy the carbine and didn't have a chance to don my SWAT gear then I'm without the magnifier.


I needed something that stayed on the gun and was easy to use. This is the reason you see so many military and law enforcement guys going over to variable powered optics.


***************************************************************


That being said, I have mentioned in conversations with friends over the last few months that the x3 Aimpoint Magnifier + LaRue Pivot Mount (#LT649) may be a good alternative for the S&B Short Dot (depending on the mission).

For me, 75% of my missions are CQB and the other 25% can range from permiter work, to overwatch on a VIP detail, to searching large warehouses or schools, etc.

I have used Aimpoint's in one form or another since 1999 - 2000, and still use them on a regular basis.

I recently received a LaRue Pivot Mount (#LT649) and will be getting a 3x Aimpoint magnifier in the near future. I am hoping this will be a good option for someone who wants to use the Aimpoint as their primary optic, but needs magnification from time to time. I'll post my thoughts on the Aimpoint + 3x Aimpoint magnifier in the LaRue Pivot mount once I get a 3x magnifier.





-Jeff

The Aimpoint+3x solution did not work out for me because I do not have perfect vision. The Aimpoint reticle is a bit fuzzy, and that's OK at CQB distances, but throw the 3x on there and the reticle blooms out - in fact, to my eyes the reticle through the 3x looks like a dogbone, not a dot, and it's kind of hard to aim if you don't know what part of the dogbone actually indicates POI. My vision is 20/40 uncorrected, so it's not like I'm blind without glasses, but the 1-4x scopes with diopter adjustments work better for me over a wider range of distances.