Optics for Self Defense and CQB: My thoughts and experiences

[UPSguy]

Thanks Jeff, will be looking forward to an update down the road.

Caporider, I have noticed the same thing.

[Tzoid]

Thanks for the great review.

I own a Eotech 512 Rev F. a Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm MR/T M2 and I just
got an Aimpoint ML3 w. LaRue cantilever mount.

The MR/T M2 also has a LaRue mount and I'm extremely happy with all three of these optics. All 3 have slightly different uses but I feel my money was well spent.

I have some friends I consider reliable and trusted advisors and thankfully I have not wasted money on optics.

BTW . I purchased a CQ/T when I was waiting for my XCR to arrive and I ended up returning it because so many people told me that I'm gonna hate it because of the reasons the OP posted. That would have been a huge mistake if I would have kept it.

Great information Thank You

[Spurholder]

USMC03,

Thanks for posting this very informative thread.

[USMC03]

For several years I have been trying to find the "perfect optic" for work. I needed something that was very proficient in a CQB enviornment (non magnified electronic red dot) and something that would give me some magnification for situations that took place at longer distances.

In setting in which I work, 75% of the missions are CQB and the other 25% can range from permiter work, to overwatch on a VIP detail, to searching large warehouses or schools, etc.

SWAT missions can often be dynamic in nature. One minute you can find yourself on a permiter trying to see if the barricaded gunman, standing in the window has a gun or a cell phone in his hand. The next minute you're being redirected to be part of the entry team. On other missions you may find yourself sitting across a large parking lot covering a buy / bust operation, the bad guy goes mobile and now your part of a vehicle take down.

In short there are times where an electronic red dot rules the day and other times where a magnified optic is more desirable. But there is almost never the time or opportunity to take one optic off the gun and replace it with another while in the middle of a mission.


2 - 3 years ago I had the opportunity to get a small amount of trigger time on a Aimpoint M3 with 2 MOA dot and Aimpoint 3x magnifier.

As I recall the Aimpoint M3 was in a standard LaRue Aimpoint Mount (#LT-150, not the cantalever version) and the Aimpoint 3x Magnifier was either a LaRue standard Aimpoint mount or night vision mount.

Due to the way the Aimpoint and 3x Magnifier was setup, I remember having to move my head to the rear on the stock to get the proper eye relief, and thus wasn't in my natural shooting position (head was too far to the rear on the stock).

The one thing that sticks out in my mind about the 3x Magnifier after using it (in the setup mentioned above) was that I didn't care for the field of view (reminded me of looking through a straw) and the 3x Magnifier just didn't "do it" for me.

In theory the magnifier would be an excellent choice, in reality it's not. Sometimes events can be so dynamic and situations can happen so quickly that you don't have time to fish around in a pouch for a magnifier, locate it, and then put it on the gun. Or if I had the magnifier in a pouch on my SWAT vest and I rolled on a bank robbery in progress, active shooter incident, etc. and had to deploy the carbine and didn't have a chance to don my SWAT gear then I'm without the magnifier.


I needed something that stayed on the gun and was easy to use. I needed an optic that I could go from no magnification to 3x, 4x, or 5x while on the move in a second or two seconds at the most. Thus the magnifier was not an option for me.


Fast forward a couple years. LaRue Tactical releases their 3x Magnifier Pivot Mount (LT649), which keeps the 3x Magnifier on the gun, but has the ability to move the 3x magnifier into the same viewing plane as the Aimpoint (ie. Aimpoint ML3 + 3x magnification) or move it out of the viewing plane, so the shooter is looking through just the non-magnified Aimpoint.

The ring portion of the LaRue Pivot Mount is a rotating spring loaded design that rotates the 3x magnifier out of the way of the Aimpiont (to the 2 o'clock position) simply by grabbing a hold of the magnifier, pull it back toward your face, and rotate to the right. Once the LaRue Pivot Mount gets to the 2 o'clock positoin, it automatically locks into place and the 3x magnifier is held in the 2 o'clock position and the shooter then can use the unmagnified Aimpoint.

I have been shooting the S&B Short Dot for the last couple years, but had been using Aimpoints since the late 90's. The only down side to my Aimpoints is that they lacked magnification.

I have a lot of law enforcement / military guys contact me and ask my opinions on different optics. Many of them have the simular mission statements as me and have simular likes and dislikes. The Short Dot is hard for many to afford due to it's price. And there aren't a lot of other options on the market if magnification + an electronic red dot (that can be seen under all lighting conditions) is needed.

A couple months ago I ordered a LaRue 3x Magnified Pivot mount and an Aimpoint 3x Magnifier.

I mounted the LaRue Pivot Mount / 3x Magnifier behind an Aimpoint ML3 (2 MOA dot) in a LaRue cantalever mount on my Colt LE6920.

I have shot this set up from 50 yards out to 425 yards. Just last week I shoot 100 rounds at the steel gongs at my local range at 425 yards, conditions were cold and windy. With just a little hold over, it was extreemly easy to engage the gongs at 425 yards.

Some observations of the Aimpoint ML3 + 3x magnifier:

-The 3x Magnifier in the LaRue Pivot Mount would be a good duty set up as it give you non magnified electronic red dot to 3x magnification on the fly

-Very clear glass

-Generous eye relief (2" - 2.5")

-Wider field of view than I remember (close to the field of view on my Short Dot at 3x

-The 3x magnifier can be taken off the gun when no needed to save weight or make the carbine more mission specific

-In a recent phone conversation with Pat Rogers, Pat brought up the fact that the 3x Magnifier can be removed from the gun and used as a monocular

-A single 3x Magnifier can be used on several different guns set up with Aimpoints or EO Techs

-3x Magnifier assists with threat and target identification

-3x Magnifier is much more economical than something like the Short Dot

-Noticed my groups at 50 and 100 yards were much smaller

-The 3x Magnifier can be brought into the viewing plane or moved out of the viewing plane with the support hand in approximatley 1 second while on the run.

In closing, I am very impressed with the Aimpoint 3x Magnifier in the LaRue Pivot Mount and will be using it for work. The Aimpoint 3x magnifier is definately another tool in the tool box.




















S/F,
Jeff

[USMC03]

Aimpoint 3x Magnifier directly behind the Aimpoint ML3


Aimpoint 3x Magnifier flipped to the right side (2 o'clock), out of the way of the Aimpoint ML3












S/F,
Jeff

[USMC03]

Aimpoint 3x Magnifier directly behind the Aimpoint ML3 (shooters view):


Aimpoint 3x Magnifier move out of the way via the LaRue Pivot Mount (shooters view):


(Disclaimer: The dot in the Aimpoint is 2 MOA, and the camera is set too far away from the 3x Magnifier for proper eye relief (thus the large black circle in the optic). The pictures were taken to show how the LaRue Pivot mount looked from the shooter's perspective.)




S/F,
Jeff

[USMC03]

[QuickStrike]

I'm waiting for the AIMPOINT M4 where the battery compartment is lower. Is this the "S" model?

[usmcchet9296]

Wow first or 2nd post and Im gonna step in it real thick here
I was in the Marines for 4 years and that is about all the "tactical" background I have. I did shoot rifle expert for the 4 years I was in during rifle quals which is a pretty big deal in the Corps so I aint no slouch when it comes to shooting. If I were to suggest a optic for CQB/home defence I would suggest iron sights on a shotgun. Lets face it most of us aren't in the Military, para-military, or LE and when Mr. Badguy does showup the best gun to get him to change his mind is a shotgun............... and a pump at that. Just the sound should deter him and as for sights well its a shotgun just point it in the general direction and pull the trigger

[usmcchet9296]

Oh another thing
all the fancy optics in the world will help you very little if you cannot shoot proficiently with iron sights. remember when all else fails they are what you will need to depend on.