CLEO sign off/ Trust Options?

[Eric D.]

I live in Centerville, Ohio; a suburb in Montgomery County, Ohio. Montgomery County is overseen by the Montgomery County Sheriff's department. Centerville, however has its own police department. No disrespect intended to the LE community but the Centerville PD has their nose in the clouds. I highly doubt the Centerville PD CLEO would sign off on an NFA item. I feel I have a better chance of convincing the Montgomery County Sheriff's department.

Does it matter which department I go through?

If neither will go for it I know I can stick it to them by going the way of a trust (warm cozy feeling inside) but I don't know much about doing it this way. This SBR project is really nothing more than a brain fart at this point.

Once I have my ATF paperwork approved, If I move to another city within Ohio, do I have to notify the local PD?

[Heavy Metal]

Start with your Chief, then go to the Sheriff(don't tell him chief refused unless he asks), then look to your Chief Prosecutor/DA and Judges in your Jurisdiction. All are acceptable to the ATF but go thru the chain.

[6933]

The sheriff is who needs to sign. If you move, you do not have to inform anyone except the BATF.

[Heavy Metal]

The sheriff is who needs to sign. If you move, you do not have to inform anyone except the BATF.

There are several CLEO's in his jurisdiction that meet ATF requirements.

When I lived in a county the Sheriff would not sign, the Chief Prosecutor did. The Chief of Police can absolutely sign and is his most local CLEO.

[bsmith_shoot]

For that matter guys, if the CLEO has designated someone to endorse official doccuments, they can sign also. They may talk to the CLEO first though, who knows? When I looked into it, I had 3 options in my really small county of only 5000 people. I had the Sheriff, Chief of Police, and our County Attorney.

[Heavy Metal]

You had more than that. You had your local Judges too.

[bsmith_shoot]

You had more than that. You had your local Judges too.

We have the Judge Executive for the county, but I dont know if he is capable? As far as judges are concerned, ours are regional, covering many towns and counties.

[Heavy Metal]

Try this:

Step 1: You ask the following persons if they would sign; the
local chief of police (if any), the local sheriff, the local
district (prosecuting) attorney, the chief of the state police, and
the state Attorney General. The CLEO can delegate the signing
duty, for his convenience, if he wishes. Ask that they refuse in
writing, if that is what they will do. You may be surprised, one
might sign. That list of persons comes from 27 CFR sec. 179.85,
which is the regulation that created the law enforcement
certification requirement for Form 4's. 27 CFR sec. 179.63 is the
companion regulation for Form 1's. The rquirement is NOT in any
statute passed by Congress. Although not listed, and ATF will NOT
designate federal officials as also acceptable (see below) other
persons whose certification has been acceptable in the past
include; local U.S. Attorney's, local federal judges, local U.S.
Marshals, and local supervising F.B.I. agents. Other local
federal law enforcement agents might also work.

Step 2: Copy the refusal letters, and send the copies to the NFA
Branch of ATF. Some CLEO's may refuse to even provide a response
in writing. Just indicating that the CLEO refused to sign, and
also refused to provide a written response, should be sufficient.
Ask ATF to designate other persons whose signature would be
acceptable, as the ones listed in the regulation would not sign.
They are required to do this by the same regulation, it is the
'safety valve' for when none of the designated persons will sign.
ATF will almost certainly say that they will accept the
certification of a state judge who has jurisdiction over where you
live (same as the chief, D.A. and sheriff in step 1, they have to
have jurisdiction over where you live, although the regulation
doesn't say that, just the Form 4) and who is a judge of a court of
general jurisdiction, that is a trial court that can (by law) hear
any civil or criminal case. No limit as to dollar amount in civil
cases, or type of crime in criminal cases. No small claims court
or traffic court type judges, in other words. Let's assume the
judges refuse.

Step 3: get back to ATF, Send them copies of the rejection
letters, if any, and ask that they accept a letter of police
clearance, or a police letter saying you have no criminal
record/history with them, in lieu of the certification, together
with your certification that you are OK, and that the weapon would
be legal for you to have where you live. They will either respond
OK, or with more persons to try. If you reach the point where they
will not accept the police clearance letter, and not designate
someone who has not turned you down, you can sue, if the
certification is for a Form 1, or the transferor (seller) on a Form
4 can sue.

[Iraqgunz]

Save all of the nonsense and do a trust. I am sure that there are members that can provide assistance.

NOTE: This is not to be construed as legal advice. If in doubt please consult a trained legal professional.

[Eric D.]

Thanks for the replies. I figured I would start with some well worded emails to the appropriate people and go from there.

If going the trust route can anyone provide some detail of what that means and how it works? I don't own a small business and I have no corporate ties and I have no personal/business relationship with an attorney. An attorney is necessary to set up a trust, no? How do I go about finding one who deals with these kind of things?