Are the lumen wars getting out of hand?

[militarymoron]

IMHO a 'lumen war' from the technical standpoint is good for the consumer, whether it's getting more light out of the same size, or the same light out of a smaller size. the same kind of technology that gets us 400 lumens out of the same size package that got us 60 is getting us 60 out of increasingly smaller packages.
even if i may not have a need for a 400 lumen light on a handgun or carbine for home defense, i don't mind having a 60 lumen light that's half the size and weight or what they used to be. miniaturization attracts me more than sheer lumens.

it's up to the consumer to decide what's the right choice for themselves. that super bright 700 lumen light in a small package that's overkill for CQB indoors might be useful for the rancher out in the open, or the civilian SAR guy looking for kids stranded on a hillside. the more choices for the consumer, the better, IMHO.

[SHIVAN]

IMHO a 'lumen war' from the technical standpoint is good for the consumer, whether it's getting more light out of the same size, or the same light out of a smaller size. the same kind of technology that gets us 400 lumens out of the same size package that got us 60 is getting us 60 out of increasingly smaller packages.
even if i may not have a need for a 400 lumen light on a handgun or carbine for home defense, i don't mind having a 60 lumen light that's half the size and weight or what they used to be. miniaturization attracts me more than sheer lumens.

it's up to the consumer to decide what's the right choice for themselves. that super bright 700 lumen light in a small package that's overkill for CQB indoors might be useful for the rancher out in the open, or the civilian SAR guy looking for kids stranded on a hillside. the more choices for the consumer, the better, IMHO.

Homerun. Thanks.

[John_Wayne777]

Curious as to what experienced folks here make of this:

(from: http://pistol-training.com/articles/...ght-essentials )

That looks oddly familiar.

How valid do you guys feel the "60-80 lumen" thing is?

Note the use of the term "general purpose tactical light". I was thinking specifically of a light suitable for concealed carry/duty carry that you would generally use in conjunction with a handgun both inside structures and outdoors.

Generally between 60-80 Surefire lumens (as noted, other manufacturers differ in their ratings...often grossly overstating them) gives you enough light to light up most of a normal sized room with one hit while not being so bright that it completely obliterates your night vision. Lack of night vision makes you more dependent upon the light, which gives a potential bad guy out there in the dark more of a chance to draw a bead on you and send lead in your direction. My personal carry light is a Surefire Z2 combat light with a Surefire LED replacement. It generates around 80 lumens. It's well suited for most tasks, whether that's clearing rooms or working on a fan belt on the side of the road.

Flashlights, like any other piece of gear, need to be tailored to the mission you have in mind. While I wouldn't want something like a Surefire Dominator cranked on high for most tasks, there are certainly some applications where that much light would be useful. Those who are inclined to actually spend decent money on a reliable light (I still run across people who talk about the mini mag-lites as tactical lights ) often get wrapped around the axle on how many lumens X light can generate without grasping that different levels of light are useful for different tasks.

[Jakus]

IMHO a 'lumen war' from the technical standpoint is good for the consumer, whether it's getting more light out of the same size, or the same light out of a smaller size. the same kind of technology that gets us 400 lumens out of the same size package that got us 60 is getting us 60 out of increasingly smaller packages.
even if i may not have a need for a 400 lumen light on a handgun or carbine for home defense, i don't mind having a 60 lumen light that's half the size and weight or what they used to be. miniaturization attracts me more than sheer lumens.

it's up to the consumer to decide what's the right choice for themselves. that super bright 700 lumen light in a small package that's overkill for CQB indoors might be useful for the rancher out in the open, or the civilian SAR guy looking for kids stranded on a hillside. the more choices for the consumer, the better, IMHO.

While I agree with you that the advances made in technology are certainly benefiting consumers, I think you might be missing the point as to whether or not you are really getting what you pay for.

Full disclosure - I am somewhat associated with Streamlight.

The question is has the lumen war upgraded technology at the same rate as it has created a neat marketing term for anyone and everyone to lay claim to.

Hopefully, the new voluntary ANSI standards for measuring light performance will greatly improve the consumers chances of making a fair and well informed decision.

See here. http://www.nema.org/stds/complimenta...09%20final.pdf PDF of ANSI Summary with participating manufacturers.

See here. http://streamlight.com/news_let/09_q4/ansi.html Streamlights website with the new logos indicating performance versus the ANSI standards for output, durability, etc.

See here. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=247065 Candlepowerforums halfway down referencing Surefire's participation in the ANSI standard

The lumen war without is this standard is what allows cheap import lights to make ridiculous lumen claims that nobody can call them out on because all manufactures created their own testing criteria. Hopefully the standard will clear the air.

[Dennis]

Yup, you need to decide what your need is and the best way to fill it. Then you practice with your chosen tools, as well as your backup tools, until you can fulfill your need to your satisfaction. My Olight M30 provides options other lights don't have that help with my work duties. However, it is not an EDC or "General Purpose Tactical" light for use with a carry pistol. For that I have one of the aforementioned smaller form factor lights that provides around 100 lumens of the somewhat floody, warm tinted, light I desire in a close defense situation. This light also has instantly accessible strobe and low output options, all in a package less than half the size of my old 6P or even L4 with even longer runtime. The market has the driven technology to where I have more options to accomplish my goals.

The downside being there are lots of options I don't want that usually just makes things more confusing. Kinda like with pistols, knives, holsters, belts, etc... I guess maybe it is sorta annoying that lights used to be easy, just get a 6P and be done with it!

As far as the flashbulb effect or problems losing your night vision, in the urban sprawl most of us probably live in light is everywhere. With street lights, porch lights, car lights, and other ambient lights there is no way to keep your "night vision". You need to use your light to help you to see and understand so you can control the situation. This fact was proven to me years ago when I brought my expensive new NVG's to work with me in what I thought was the "dark" South end of town, they were virtually useless even in the unlit alleys due to the ambient lights. I'm sure someone's tactical situation requires them to worry about their night vision, but I think the average city cop probably needs more light than less.

Dennis.

[SkiDevil]

I keep seeing ads and posts for lights with 100, 150, 200 lumens and going higher. I can't help but remember the <60 lumen Surefire 2-cell light I started with and marveled at it's brightness, and now there are lights 4x as bright.

I also wonder if they're not getting like the dB ratings on cans where they are over-stated at best.

For handheld lights I find myself gravitating to the longer runtime than the super-brightness.

Any thoughts?

Hello Rob,
Although I personally think it is getting a little silly (the hype over the Bigest Brightest flashlight) who I am I to rain on another persons parade. As someone already pointed-out, I think we will all eventually benefit from the current flash light technology craze with a better end product. As with other electronic goods, the price should eventually drop and the consumer will have a better (bright LED light with a longer run time) product for a cheaper price.

I don't have the technical knowledge to rate the individual lumen claims, but almost all of the major brands seem to be very bright for general purpose use.

I guess that I am much like yourself in that I am starting to prefer the lights with longer (LED) run times as well. The light which I currently use the most is a Sure Fire "L1 Digital LUMAMAX". It is a very compact light with a clip on the body and runs off of (1) 123A Battery. The light has the two-mode switch with the normal activation producing a lower-light (10 lumen) output, and the full pressure of the switch releasing the highest (65 lumen) out-put.

For $170 I though it was somewhat expensive compared to the two 6Ps and 9P I owned. But, I believe I have saved a significant amount over the use of less batteries in the standard SF bulb lights.

I still use the standard 6P and have a dedicated SF fore end on a Remington 870 as well. But for all around use, I really like the SF L1. It is compact and even at the lowest power lights up the interior of a vehicle or a dark room sufficiently. And with the brightest setting it provides just as much power as the 6P in a more compact package with a 30 minute longer run-time.

I don't know if it is practicality or just being cheap, but I really like a flashlight that rarely requires me to change-out the batteries. SF claims the run-time is something like 16 hours on the lower power setting, but I used the original battery that came with the light for just over a year. The batteries in that light last a long time.

SkiDevil

P.S. FWIW I have been issued and/ or purchased most of the major light brands, I do firmly believe that the Surefire is one of the best. Their lights are extremely durable and very bright for the relatively small size most are.

Link:http://www.surefire.com/L1-LumaMax

[militarymoron]

While I agree with you that the advances made in technology are certainly benefiting consumers, I think you might be missing the point as to whether or not you are really getting what you pay for.

most people don't have the equipment to measure lamp output to verify that they are indeed getting the output they pay for, but many are satisfied to get something that's a lot brighter (to the eye) for the same price.
but i agree, a standard method of measuring light performance + truth in advertising will also be greatly beneficial for the consumer.

[Dennis]

Measuring lumens is like measuring stopping power, more art than science given various beam shapes and really just a relative scale at best given the calibration requirements of light measuring technology. The fact that light output as determined by the human eye is logarithmic anyways, who cares if a light is 80, 100, or even 150 OTF lumens. As with ammo and guns, ignore the marketing hype and if you really care do a little research to find a light with the features you need. Actual total lumens OTF is one of the last things that matters behind UI, features, beam shape, form factor, runtime, battery type, construction, and even LED tint.

Yes, the lumen wars are getting out of hand. Ignore them, they are for the sheeple.

Dennis.

[Fringe]

I hear ya, I am a big lover over flood compared to throw. I mean, throw is good, but flood is more useful in the majority of regular applications.

I know this is OT, but I just took delivery of Surefire's "SAINT" and it is genius. It is one of their new head lamps and it can run on 1, 2, or 3 CR123's and if you don't have any of those, it can run off 2 AA's! Also, if you want to run it super light, you can disconnect the battery pack that rides on the back of the band and use a included secondary cap to put a single CR123 directly in the lamp! As far as lumens, you can control output with a front mounted reostat that will give you between 1 and 100 lumens. The thing is just awesome. Highly recommended.

[Outlander Systems]

Currently, my main Weaponlight is an old-school E2L with the single-stage output at 45 lumens. It's bright enough for me to see in the dark, with my weapon.

The runtime is silly long, and I'm not trying to truck around with a portable lighthouse.

My dad and I had a discussion and he was showing me his 300-lumen output, cheap Chinese light, and how it was "better" than the G2L I made him get for his carbine.

You can lead a horse to water...