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Thread: EAG Tactical Carbine Operators Course, Kathleen, FL 11-13 Dec 09

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    EAG Tactical Carbine Operators Course, Kathleen, FL 11-13 Dec 09

    The class was held at Southern Exposure in Kathleen, FL, North of Lakeland. The weather was overcast and the temp was in the 50's for the first day, but in the high 70's and low 80's for the next two days. The host, Irv, has provided an excellent training facility, that is well maintained, has one long rifle range with 3 side bay pistol ranges, and a covered staging area. The rifle range, can go back as far a 400 yards if necessary. It is one of the most well groomed outdoor shooting ranges I've been to and is my "Go To" Range, for quality firearms instruction. I saw a lot of familiar faces from previous instruction, met some new folks and many M4C members (the usual suspects). The class was full with folks on a waiting list. I also like thank the following sponsors for the nice gifts they contributed to the course, of which I personally own lots of their gear: Bravo Company (and for the T&E weapons), Magpul, LaRue Tactical, and Slip 2000 weapons lube.

    Pat Rogers, what can I say?

    Calling him an excellent Instructor, would be an understatement. I've been trying to snag his course for quite a while, and finally got the opportunity this weekend. His "colorful" explanation, descriptions and banter, were classic, and were equally enjoyable. His AI Mike, also has in-depth knowledge and equally "colorful" explanations and humor. I fired one of EAG's T&E weapons, a BCM CFH Middy, with T-1 Aimpoint and Vtac sling, with my Pmags, shooting Wolf, with no ammo issues I might add. Pat was gracious to have some of the students run those T&E weapons, throughout the 3 day course, one with over 26,000 rounds through it.

    TD1:

    Pat started with a safety briefing, and then proceeded to brief us on the purpose of the course, which is a Fighting Carbine course and his methodology, followed by an in-depth weapons parts 'show and tell" covering several generations of Mags, RDSs, and Magnified Optics, broken AR parts, expected life span on certain parts (according to Crane), etc... It was a very knowledgeable briefing to say the least. We proceeded to zero our weapons at the 50 yard line, then go through a series of drills (Failure, ASR, Navy) at various ranges from the 50 down to 3 yards.


    TD2:

    Covered another briefing, then back on the range with more of the same from TD1, malfunction drills ad-nauseam, Transition drills, Box drills, then adding "turn and shoot", "move and shoot" drills, shooting the Failure drill, while advancing on the targets, following a couple of Navy drills, standing 5 rounds, mag change, 5 rounds kneeling, mag change, 5 rounds prone, in under 25 seconds, then the MEUSOC qual, a Timed event, which involves running, shooting from the stationary after the run, then shoot on the move, under a timer, in prep for the record fire on TD 3. The Navy and MEUSOC Drills were performed several times.

    TD3:

    Involved another briefing, followed by more of TD1 & 2, followed by record qualification on both the Navy and MEUSOC Drills, then finishing off with Ocular Shooting, covering the front end of the RDS, while accurately engaging your target, then turning the Dot off, while using the RDS as a large rear sight while accurately engaging the target.

    Their were not too many weapon issues that I witnessed, except for one of the students using one of the T&E weapons of another manufacturer, a piston, that had various issues for the entire class. My BCM CFH Middy, ran like a champ for the entire class, with only one double feed from a bad mag, which I quickly replaced. I had some reservations with using the Aimpoint T-1, because of the 4 MOA dot prior, but was glad to see it was mounted on my T&E weapon and use it for the 3 days. The 4 MOA dot is a Non issue and a great little RDS. I'll be getting one in the very near future. I learned a ton of new TTPs to be a more effective shooter in both carbine and pistol. Everyone present were very good shooters in there own right. Everyone came away with additional skills and high praise for Pat and Mike. I would highly recommend getting in a class or two with Pat Rogers and EAG Tactical. If you get the chance, check out Southern Exposure online and sign up for class schedules and updates. Pics to follow...





















    Next three pics, the "Crescendo of Death". You turn and shoot (a ASR Drill, 7 rounds to the body as fast as possible) only when you see the person in front of you move.







    Let's see how many recognize this movie: The person, who lost his leg to an IED, rigged this on his prosthetic.....Yes he is shooting it!








    Recognize the movie now?
    Last edited by RogerinTPA; 12-15-09 at 20:16.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

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    Pics are up.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

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    Hi Roger

    Thanks for the kind words about the range but it is really the instructors I bring in that really make the students coming back. Pat has been coming for 6 or 7 years and his class is always sold out and that is a testament to his ability to teach and entertain. Mike has been his AI for the last 3 or 4 years and deserves a good portion of the praise, he really compliments Pat.

    I pride myself in only hosting the best of the best and Pat is certainly one of those.

    Thanks to all the students who attended and adhered to safety rules (our record on no injuries continues) without them the range would have been closed years ago.

    Thanks again.

    be safe irv

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    I'll have more later, but here is my one-photo AAR, indicative of my performance over the course of the three days.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bantee View Post
    Sorry to be a dumb-!@#$. but I assume a "moosecock" isn't a good thing? Could someone elaborate what it is for the new guy? Thanks.
    I have the dubious distinction of two being awarded from one drill. This burned the transgression(s) into my brain so that, hopefully, I will never, ever repeat them. Worse (or better), the humiliation/learning occurred in the presence of five of my children who were also shooting. They don't let me forget.
    Last edited by Submariner; 12-15-09 at 09:06.
    "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    "I donít care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity

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    This was my fourth time with Pat and Mike in Lakeland. It's been interesting over the years to see how the classes morph and change and what new lessons and drills they bring with them.

    For those that haven't attended one of Pat's classes, everything is building one lesson on another from the first shot fired to the last, stringing skills together and building and stacking them as the drills get more and more complex.

    TD1 began with a discussion of safety and then moved quickly on to gear. Magazines, optics, etc. Pat gets to see a lot of gear every year, and spending the morning getting a little bit of insight into that experience is one of the benefits of attending EAG classes. The shooting began shortly after lunch when we all moved out to the 50 for a lesson on prone before checking and getting a zero at 50 yards.

    shooters getting their zero




    After lunch we moved close in to work on mechanical offset of optics as well as trigger control. Drills were fired with each step on command starting from the 3 yard line and then repeated at various distances out to the 15. Drill was fire, holding the trigger to the rear, ease to reset, fire again, ease to reset and fire a third time, all done on the verbal command.

    Pat demonstrates drill


    shooters working the drill a little further out




    We next learned several target engagement methods that we would use over the course of the three days to include controlled pairs, hammers, failure drills, and tthe Non-Standard Response (NSR). We then worked these drills at various distances from the 5 to the 25 yard line.

    student fires NSR




    Then it was on to the 25 yard line where Pat and Mike demonstrated various positions from braced kneel, to quick kneel, double kneel ("Monica") and squat.

    Pat and Mike demonstrating squat


    students work Monica from high, low, leaning right, leaning left




    The next skill is the speed reload. As usual Pat and Mike demonstrate, and then we get our chance to try it and practice what they demonstrate. The building begins from here. We begin to string the basics together by firing a drill going from standing to kneeling to prone with a speed reload in between. While this may sound like a simplistic drill, it is deceiving based on the number of shooters that bumble such a seemingly easy drill.

    shooter reloads before going to prone (note two magazines on the deck, first from standing to kneeling)




    We finished the day going over controlled pairs, hammers, failure drills, and NSRs at close range again

    shooters finishing out TD1

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Pat demonstrates drill.
    Is that Pat's carbine? Is he now running his VFG all the way forward?
    "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    "I donít care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity

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    Rob: Are you wearing your armor in these pics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by C45P312 View Post
    Rob: Are you wearing your armor in these pics?
    No. I went molle-belt only day one, molle belt & armor day two, chest rig with straps and concealment holster day three. I hoped to get pictures of all three setups in action but the other relay was always in a hurry to run off the line so I had no photographers to take pics of me for large portions of the class.

    There were a few taking photos with their own cameras so I'm hopeful those will turn up.

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    TD2 started off with a reconfirm of zero at 50 yards. I find it generally interesting that zeros seem to wander, but I have a theory that it's not the rifle that changes, it's the shooter. At the beginning of each day the shooter has another full day of hundreds of trigger presses and sight pictures under their belt, and I think that improves their abilities just enough that their groups start to get a little more dialed in, which results in the ability to further fine-tune the zero.

    students confirming zero at the start of TD2




    Actually, I'm a little ahead of myself. The range has a zoning restriction and we can't start shooting before 09:00 and the better instructors take advantage of this time to work on dryfire drills and Pat was no different, using the hour before firing to demonstrate turning to the left and turning to the right.

    Pat demonstrating turns




    After we got through the zeroing portion of the morning we moved right into malfunction clearances. We set up various types of malfunctions and then go through the steps to clear them on command, before being instructed to fire a certain drill and being left to clear the malfunction on our own.

    student clears a double-feed




    As mentioned previously, Pat instructs the students on the basics of shooting and manipulations and then we string those skills together in various drills that make use of those skills and test the student's ability to perform the skills under mild (or for some, major) stress. One of those drills is the Modified Navy Qual where the shooter begins with three 5-round magazines and fires 5 rounds standing, 5 rounds kneeling, and 5 rounds prone with an emergency reload in between. On TD1 you do this drill from the 25, and on TD2 it's the 35 yard line.

    student reloads on his way to prone




    The transition to pistol is the fastest and most reliable way to deal with a stoppage in the carbine at close range. Not only is it faster to retrieve the pistol than to diagnose and/or speed reload the carbine (given that the shooter has previously un-****ed their gear), but it is more reliable in that you are going from a known failing carbine to a known functional pistol (provided that the shooter remembers to check/load the pistol beforehand).

    Pat demonstrates the transition to pistol


    students work the drill




    Multiple target engagement. Firing on a pair of targets there are any number of ways that they may be engaged. For the purposes of training, we use the previous firing drills of hammer, controlled pair, failure drill, and NSR and string them together in different ways to engage the two targets. One such way is to fire a single shot on the first target, a hammer to the second, and finish with a single shot back on the first. often called "boarding house rules" or "roadhouse rules" (no idea where those names came from, so don't ask). Another is to fire a hammer to each. A third is a "box drill" where you fire a hammer to the first target, a failure drill to the second, and finish with a brain shot to the first. Firing these drills in a a training environment is as much, if not more, about thinking on your feet and maintaining your situational awareness, as well as learning to deal with swinging the muzzle from side to side and finding your target, as it is about teaching a prescribed drill for dealing with two live threats.

    Once we have that out of the way, we get to shooting on the move. Mike demonstrates several examples of what NOT to do, as well as the proper technique for bending at the knees to get a stable firing platform while moving over uneven ground. We then fired various drills moving in from various distances.

    shooting on the move







    We finished out TD2 again stringing various drills together by shooting multiple targets on the move with a transition to pistol. We built to this by starting wtih the shooting on he move, then adding in engaging multiple targets on the move, and then adding in the transition to pistol. Taking multiple tasks from earlier blocks of instruction and adding in one at a time until the shooters are accurately completing the more complex tasks

    engaging multiple targets on the move







    and doing so under Pat's watchful eye

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