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Thread: Which Optic for M1A Scout Squad???

  1. #1
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    Which Optic for M1A Scout Squad???

    Guys,
    I might pull the trigger on an 18" Scout Squad soon, and I'm trying to find out what's the best optic choice for this rifle? Definitely not going with an ACOG or red dot this time.
    I want a full blown scope. Is the military using Leupold scopes on most of their M14's/M1A's???
    I THINK I've seen a bunch of them pictured online with Leupolds (not sure which model???), but maybe I've seen something else too, like Nightforces/etc????
    Can anyone give me the best options here? I'm also ASSUMING, that most commonly used, would be something that adjusts up to 10x??? Is this correct, and is this all the magnification I should desire for this rifle???
    Thanks for any help guys...

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    The M14s we had as SDM rifles were fitted with models/versions of Leupold 3x9 optics. hth.

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    It all depends on what you want to use it for.....

    Personally, this is how I'd set mine up....

    Remove the "rail" that's attached to the barrel, and put a standard or slotted handguard on it.

    Install the Smith Enterprises picatinny rail mount.

    I'd put a high quality 1.5-6x optic on it, whether it's Leupold, Burris, IOR, Swarovski, Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender, etc.....whatever your budget will allow.

    This will allow you to engage targets from near contact distance up to several hundred yards.
    Employee of colonialshooting.com

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    Mine sports an EOTech on the barrel mount... No problems at all for me there but if you were worried about heat, pick up a Smith receiver mount and put your choice of optic on it.
    Keep your powder dry.

    M4Carbine required notice/disclaimer: I am a tactical marketing professional. PM for details.

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    Just wondering why you are getting a "scout" rifle, if you don't want to use the forward mounted "scout" scope location -- that is, after all, perhaps the biggest thing that makes a scout rifle a scout rifle?
    The sun will rise tomorrow; itís your attendance of the event that is uncertain.

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    xxxxx
    Last edited by PALADIN-hgwt; 07-09-09 at 23:25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K.L. Davis View Post
    Just wondering why you are getting a "scout" rifle, if you don't want to use the forward mounted "scout" scope location?

    I have not stated that I don't want to use the forward mounted "scout" scope location. In fact, the thought has never crossed my mind....
    ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by razorhunter View Post
    I have not stated that I don't want to use the forward mounted "scout" scope location. In fact, the thought has never crossed my mind....
    ???
    This is what I read:
    Quote Originally Posted by razorhunter View Post
    Guys,
    Definitely not going with an ACOG or red dot this time. I want a full blown scope. ...something that adjusts up to 10x??? Is this correct, and is this all the magnification I should desire for this rifle???
    Do you understand the concept behind a scout rifle?
    The sun will rise tomorrow; itís your attendance of the event that is uncertain.

    Custodial Engineer and Mad Scientist at Dark Mountain Research

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    Ok, sounds like you are saying it's supposed to be used with the kind of optic I do not wish to use, with the front rail. I supposed I don't know the point of the scout rifle.
    Cool, I can dig that.

    I just want a typical 3-9x or 10x scope, and I do not really want the long 22" bbl of the original M1A...
    I gotcha though... My apologies, and thanks for your reply K.L....

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    Exclamation

    xxxxx
    Last edited by PALADIN-hgwt; 07-09-09 at 23:25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by razorhunter View Post
    Ok, sounds like you are saying it's supposed to be used with the kind of optic I do not wish to use, with the front rail. I supposed I don't know the point of the scout rifle.
    Cool, I can dig that.

    I just want a typical 3-9x or 10x scope, and I do not really want the long 22" bbl of the original M1A...
    I gotcha though... My apologies, and thanks for your reply K.L....
    This is a cut and paste of part of the Scout Rifle Archive. The bottom line is the scout scope concept is to use a low power, IER/LER scope with both eyes open -- it works very well with 2-2.5X, the scope you are asking about will not even go low enough to work well.

    Further, the scopes you are looking at will fill a lot of FOV and take away from the scout scope experience, also, I don't think anyone makes a IER scope in the power ranges that you are looking for?

    Rather than buy something then try to figure out what to do with it... why not define what you need the weapon to do, then get that weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scout Rifle Archive

    The Concept

    The idea behind the scout rifle is not new. The famous old Mannlicher 6.5 carbine was a step in this direction, as was the equally famous Winchester Model 94 30-30 carbine. The British "Jungle Carbine" of World War II was another example of the breed, and finally there came the ill-fated Remington 600 carbines of a decade ago--excellent guns in most ways but ahead of their time. I acquired a 600 in 308 and fitted it with a Leupold 2X intermediate-eye-relief telescope. This laid the groundwork of the scout concept...

    ...modern technology enables us to produce a rifle which need not sacrifice either power or accuracy to convenience. The new-wave rifle is neither more powerful nor intrinsically more accurate than the rifles of the past, but it is much, much handier--shorter, lighter and quicker to operate. The current guideline is a length limit of one meter and a weight limit of three kilos. (This weight is measured with all accessories in place but with the weapon unloaded.) Immediately these limitations point us toward short actions, short barrels, compact sights, and synthetic stocks. A further feature which distinguishes the modern scout rifle from its predecessors is the telescope sight, but that in a certain particular mode. The modern scout uses a low-power telescope mounted just forward of the magazine well. In recent decades, progress in the development of telescope sights has been to a certain extent negative in that telescopes, instead of becoming stronger, smaller and faster to use have become larger, more cumbersome, more fragile and almost necessarily mounted too high above the bore...

    The Forward Telescope

    For those who have not tried it, an explanation of the advantages of the forward telescope is in order. First, and most important, the forward glass does not obscure the landscape. With both eyes open the shooter sees the entire countryside as well as the crosswire printed on his target. For this reason it is important that the magnification of the telescope be no greater than 3X (some hold that 2X is maximum) in order to avoid excessive disparity between the vision of the two eyes. This forward mount, properly used and understood, is the fastest sighting arrangement available to the rifleman...There are those who think that a glass of low power is necessarily less precise for long-range precision work, but we have not found this to be the case in any sort of realistic test.

    There are many additional advantages to the forward telescope mount. It is out of the way when the rifle is carried at the balance. It may be mounted as low over the bore as the diameter of the bell permits. It avoids pinching between thumb and bolt handle when the bolt is operated. It permits stripper loading if desired. It greatly facilitates single-loading with eyes on target. It completely eliminates "telescope eye." Without exception, those who have tried the forward mounted glass in a full course of rifle training are unanimous in their conviction of its superiority...

    Mounting

    The problem of mounting a telescope properly in its forward position is severe...Since scout barrels are as thin as compatible with safety there is no way to screw anything onto the barrel at the forward telescope mount ring. Therefore some sort of extrusion must be applied to the barrel in order to provide a proper base for the front mount. On Scout I this was the plastic rib that came on the Remington 600. On Scout II a machined steel ring was slid over the barrel and sweated into place to offer foothold. On Scout III the standard Ruger quarter rib of the single shot rifle was affixed to the Ruger Ultralight to provide a forward footing. On all subsequent scouts the barrel is machined with intrinsic rings in place.
    The sun will rise tomorrow; itís your attendance of the event that is uncertain.

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    I would suggest a forward mount of some sort. The above the reciever, using the stripper clip guide mount, offerings seem problematic at least on the SOCOM mk14's I've seen. Additionally optics here block access to the action... slowing manipulation & problem solving.

    The SAGE stocks are heavy & clumsy. The m14 is already bit of a pig with an actual ammo loadout.A few guys have just added sections of m1913 rail onto usgi fiberglass stocks with good success.

    I've seen a steel, canuck made, forward mount similar to the springfield offering but in actual picatinny spec, not weaver. Ulimaks m14/m1a rail looks interesting, their AK rail has worked well for folks I know.

    I'm not familiar with long eye relief, magnified, optics, and will have to check some out for the m14 I'm building now: 18.5" chrome lined, shortened usgi stock with Fulton Armory rail at 6 for light... and maybe Ultimaks top rail.

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    Remove the crap aluminum barrel mounted scope mount (they end up getting beat up quickly), get a Smith Ent. mount, and put a Leupold MR/T on it.

    AVOID putting an EOTech/Aimpoint/Reflex on it at all costs... The point being... WHY?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
    Remove the crap aluminum barrel mounted scope mount (they end up getting beat up quickly), get a Smith Ent. mount, and put a Leupold MR/T on it.

    AVOID putting an EOTech/Aimpoint/Reflex on it at all costs... The point being... WHY?
    I would agree to removing the barrel mounted scope and installing a Smith Enterprise mount. But, an Aimpoint on the Smith is a GREAT combination.

    Take a carbine class with it and you will understand why. It's much faster than irons.


    Mace
    "Superior gear will never make up for a lack of training or attitude"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaceWindu View Post
    I would agree to removing the barrel mounted scope and installing a Smith Enterprise mount. But, an Aimpoint on the Smith is a GREAT combination.

    Take a carbine class with it and you will understand why. It's much faster than irons.
    I agree it is much faster with an unmagnified dot of some sort. I just think it's a bit limiting for the platform, and I'm not a big fan of carrying a dozen different attachments and having to reconfigure at every turn. I was only stating my personal opinion, and what works for one person may not be the solution for another...

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