Interesting thread on GT about bullet performance in actual shootings

[DocGKR]

"I'd rather have someone covering me with a 9mm loaded with FMJ who trains often enough to put those rounds where the need to go than someone with the latest round who only shoots at beer cans a few times a year (on sunny days, of course).

Pick a caliber that you feel ok with. Use a reliable gun that you can shoot effectively. Get some competent training. Practice what you learned while training. Pick a round that meets your needs. Buy enough of it to test it in your gun. Then move on."

ABSOLUTELY CONCUR!!!

[DeltaKilo]

ABSOLUTELY CONCUR!!!

Can't argue with that. I think way too many people spend way too much time arguing about/thinking about their ammo and gun and far too little time bothering to become proficient shooters, much less spend any time mentally preparing themselves for what comes during and after a gunfight. Oh well.

[tpd223]

Guys like Jim Cirillo did a lot of good work with model 10s loaded with RNL.

Not that they wouldn't have prefered more capable guns and bullets, but I'd rather Jim and his model 10 have my back than most average guys with any gun they would care to choose.

[tpd223]

... and just so we have an idea that nothing handheld is a death ray, a bit from an article in Police magazine, Oct 2010 edition;



Backing from the front end of a parked car, the suspect rounded a windshield and came within full view of Olszynski. Glancing over, the suspect became aware of Olszynski and turned to face him. Only 15 feet separated the two men.

The man swung his gun in Olszynski's direction.

Olszynski opened fire with the pump-action shotgun, discharging multiple Federal 00 buck shells, each of which contained nine pellets.

The deputy had expected such firepower would have dropped the man where he stood. But the man didn't flinch, and despite their proximity, an improbable and scary thought occurred to Olszynski: Am I missing him?

With each blast, Olszynski rechambered and squeezed off another. With the fourth shot he saw a red plume come off the suspect's body and realized that his rounds had found their target. Yet the man still advanced, half-circling toward him. By the time Olszynski's Remington ran dry, the suspect had closed the gap between them to about seven feet.

Dropping the shotgun, Olszynski transitioned to his sidearm. As he did, the man dropped to his knees before him.

"I give up."

With those words, Kirk Knight fell to the ground and rolled onto his back. Olszynski moved his gun away and told him not to move. Maintaining his sidearm on him, Olszynski watched as Lewellyn flipped the man over and handcuffed him. After conducting a quick but thorough search of Knight for any additional weapons, Lewellyn tried to radio for medics.

But radio traffic of responding units was tying up the radio, delaying the request for about a minute. Seeing some movement by a minivan a few rows away and near where the suspect had been trying to run, Olszynski walked over to investigate. On the ground huddled a mom, dad, and their child, crying.

Radio traffic or not, Knight's fate had been sealed by 36 shotgun pellets. He was transported to the hospital where he was subsequently pronounced dead.

[Entropy]

Great read tpd223. It just goes to show that unless you directly damage the central nervous system, you have to wait for bleedout and/or organ failure regardless of how much damage you inflict on a person.

[fivefivesix]

[QUOTE=DeltaKilo;870155]Can't argue with that. I think way too many people spend way too much time arguing about/thinking about their ammo and gun and far too little time bothering to become proficient shooters, much less spend any time mentally preparing themselves for what comes during and after a gunfight. Oh well.

How can one prepare for what comes after a gun fight. i dont know what it is like to take another humans life. i know how i felt when i killed my first animal at a young age and that alone gave me respect for all things living.

[DeltaKilo]

[QUOTE=fivefivesix;870499]

Can't argue with that. I think way too many people spend way too much time arguing about/thinking about their ammo and gun and far too little time bothering to become proficient shooters, much less spend any time mentally preparing themselves for what comes during and after a gunfight. Oh well.

How can one prepare for what comes after a gun fight. i dont know what it is like to take another humans life. i know how i felt when i killed my first animal at a young age and that alone gave me respect for all things living.

One prepares only by considering the very real possibilities of what one might face, and determining whether or not they're mentally prepared to do what needs to be done and accept the aftermath. One can be prepared to deal with the consequences, even if one isn't sure what the consequences are.

[Beat Trash]

How can one prepare for what comes after a gun fight. i dont know what it is like to take another humans life.

Lt. Col. David Grossman wrote a book titled "On Killing - The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society". While I do not agree with everything in his book, the majority of it is a good read. It explains why your brain and body reacts the way it does after you are involved in a critical incident. So when you may experience some of these things you will know that you're not going nuts.

There is another series titled "The Bullet Proof Mind". It's worth looking into also.

One must also remind themselves that they did not cause this death. The outcome was determined by the actions of the suspect.

[DocH]

This has been one of the best threads I have read.Great input from DocGKR as always and Lookin4U,as well as everyone else who contributed.
Glock17JHP,your choices are exactly the same as mine and for the very same reasons,and being so I suspect our lifestyles are very similar. I had a long time in LE but my needs are different now,so I've adapted. Slow process ,tho.

[200RNL]

Guys like Jim Cirillo did a lot of good work with model 10s loaded with RNL.

Not that they wouldn't have prefered more capable guns and bullets, but I'd rather Jim and his model 10 have my back than most average guys with any gun they would care to choose.

Almost the same combination I started out with but mine was a Model 15. My only disappointment with the R-P 158 gr RNL was that it had trouble penetrating the doors of junked cars I tried it on. That wasn't surprising for a soft lead bullet at standard velocities. When my department switched over to WW 158 gr SWC +P, I was satisfied with my sidearm as were most of the other guys I worked with. That was until the BLA started shooting at cops with Browning High Powers. Then the cry went out to get us semi auto 9mm's. No one was talking about .45's. We wanted the big magazines the bad guys had.