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Thread: Got Testosterone?

  1. #981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Robison View Post
    I'll post it when I get my next blood work done. This last was just done by my family doc as part of an annual physical and he didn't check the things my endochrinologist is monitoring. My endocrinologist is writing the scripts. I feel great so I have no reason to doubt his reasoning behind it. Unless something changes drastically for the worse in my blood work I'm going to run with it.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    I don't expect health related labs to be out of whack per, but I guarantee your total T (assuming you're in the US using typical esters of T) and free T, will be well above TRT ranges. I'm surprised you found an endo who started you off on that dose. Typical dose (though not what I'd recommend...) might be 300mg every 2 weeks.

    Good luck.
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  2. #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    I don't expect health related labs to be out of whack per, but I guarantee your total T (assuming you're in the US using typical esters of T) and free T, will be well above TRT ranges. I'm surprised you found an endo who started you off on that dose. Typical dose (though not what I'd recommend...) might be 300mg every 2 weeks.

    Good luck.
    Yeah, I'm expecting free T to be up around 9 and total to be around 1000-1100 just based on the average increases from the few studies I've read done on 300mg vs 600mg of test per week. Definitely at the top of the scale and if they are over he said he'll back them down.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  3. #983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Robison View Post
    Yeah, I'm expecting free T to be up around 9 and total to be around 1000-1100 just based on the average increases from the few studies I've read done on 300mg vs 600mg of test per week. Definitely at the top of the scale and if they are over he said he'll back them down.
    I'd expect higher at 300mg per week. 200mg per week, maybe.
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  4. #984
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    Thanks to Will and this thread I started to suspect I may have low T. Talked to my doctor about it, he didn't think that I had any issues, but I was able to get him to order me a hormone panel.

    Test came back at 67 ng/dl, @32 years of age.

    Doctor now wants to do another test in a few weeks to confirm those numbers. Is waiting and retesting after a few weeks a normal practice?

    If this has already been covered I apologize, I am working my way through this thread but haven't come across an answer yet.

  5. #985
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    Quote Originally Posted by masan View Post
    Thanks to Will and this thread I started to suspect I may have low T. Talked to my doctor about it, he didn't think that I had any issues, but I was able to get him to order me a hormone panel.

    Test came back at 67 ng/dl, @32 years of age.

    Doctor now wants to do another test in a few weeks to confirm those numbers. Is waiting and retesting after a few weeks a normal practice?

    If this has already been covered I apologize, I am working my way through this thread but haven't come across an answer yet.
    Wow, that's lowest I have ever seen in a (seemingly) healthy man under 40. A retest is in order per docs recs, as it could be lab error, etc, but while already drawing blood, seeing a number that low, I'd want to see free T, E2, LH, and FSH, at the very least on the re test. If total T, and free T, and or E2, etc come back out whack, that gives a far better clinical picture and more intel as to where the issue stems from (primary vs secondary) and how to move forward.

    I assume you had it done due to experiencing subjective symptoms of low T?
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  6. #986
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Wow, that's lowest I have ever seen in a (seemingly) healthy man under 40. A retest is in order per docs recs, as it could be lab error, etc, but while already drawing blood, seeing a number that low, I'd want to see free T, E2, LH, and FSH, at the very least on the re test. If total T, and free T, and or E2, etc come back out whack, that gives a far better clinical picture and more intel as to where the issue stems from (primary vs secondary) and how to move forward.

    I assume you had it done due to experiencing subjective symptoms of low T?
    I did have the test done for that reason, though I have been having the symptoms since my senior year of college, it wasn't until I started reading this thread that I thought I may be suffering from low T.

    I eat healthy and lift 3-4 times a week, do a little bit of spinning for cardio, and have a very active job/lifestyle.

    I actually had a number of the tests you mention done with the hormone test per doctors orders, though the only numbers that the doctor mentioned being outside of normal were the testosterone numbers and cholesterol.

    Can low T be genetic? Males on one side of my family generally experience what I did, being quite healthy and fit until their early 20's, then going all Fun House Mirror over a few months time even though they (we) lead a very healthy/active lifestyle at the time.

  7. #987
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    Quote Originally Posted by masan View Post
    I did have the test done for that reason, though I have been having the symptoms since my senior year of college, it wasn't until I started reading this thread that I thought I may be suffering from low T.

    I eat healthy and lift 3-4 times a week, do a little bit of spinning for cardio, and have a very active job/lifestyle.

    I actually had a number of the tests you mention done with the hormone test per doctors orders, though the only numbers that the doctor mentioned being outside of normal were the testosterone numbers and cholesterol.

    Can low T be genetic? Males on one side of my family generally experience what I did, being quite healthy and fit until their early 20's, then going all Fun House Mirror over a few months time even though they (we) lead a very healthy/active lifestyle at the time.
    Then what were the numbers for free T, E2, LH, and FSH? If those were not tested, then they should be at this point in my view. Always ask for a copy of your blood work, always. Depending on those numbers, at your age, and generally healthy life style, I'd want to rule out things like pituitary tumor*, meds, etc. You'd want to rule out all possible known causes before even considering some genetic related factor at this point. Some times, the cause just can't be determined.

    * = The majority of which are noncancerous benign adenomas BTW.
    Last edited by WillBrink; 10-31-17 at 15:08.
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  8. #988
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    Thank you for the input and advice sir, I will get a copy of the bloodwork when I see the doctor next, and inquire about those numbers and tests.

  9. #989
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    New paper further supports going the sub Q route for T administration. I don't see any reason to switch per se if one is getting the results they wanted from their current admin route, but worth noting sub Q is perfectly viable route:

    Serum Testosterone Concentrations Remain Stable Between Injections in Patients Receiving Subcutaneous Testosterone
    J Endo Soc. 2017;1(8):1095-1103.

    Abstract and Introduction

    Abstract

    Purpose: Intramuscular (IM) testosterone is the most common modality for testosterone therapy of both male hypogonadism and female-to-male (FTM) gender transition. However, IM injections can be painful and often are not self-administered by the patient. The objective of this study was to further characterize subcutaneous (SC) administration of testosterone as an effective and safe alternative to IM injections by evaluating the pharmacodynamics of serum total and free testosterone concentrations between weekly testosterone injections.

    Methods: Eleven FTM transgender patients already receiving weekly SC testosterone cypionate with documented therapeutic levels prior to enrollment had free and total serum testosterone levels measured at eight different time points during a 1-week dosing interval.

    Results: Mean levels of total and free testosterone were stable and remained well within the normal range between injections. Overall mean ± standard deviation levels for the seven samples taken between injections were 627 ± 206 ng/dL (range, 205 to 1410) for total testosterone and 146 ± 51 pg/mL (range, 38 to 348) for free testosterone. No adverse effects were encountered.

    Conclusions: The results of this study support use of SC testosterone to achieve therapeutic and stable serum testosterone levels for the purpose of gender transition. It is anticipated that these results can be extended to hypogonadal men. This route may be preferred over IM testosterone because it is relatively painless and easy to self-inject thus allowing for the convenience and economy of patient self-administration.

    Full Paper:

    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle...=1483203&faf=1
    - Will

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  10. #990
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    Low T levels and obesity have been associated for a long time, but the relationship and mechanisms unclear. This may be at least one viable mechanism by which increased bodyfat levels = reduced T levels. In bold most interesting part of this paper I thought.

    Endotoxin initiated inflammation reduces testosterone production in men of reproductive age.

    Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2017 Nov

    Abstract

    Inflammation, both acute and chronic is associated with testosterone deficiency, raising the possibility of a direct causal link. One potential trigger for inflammation in obese men is the passage of intestinal bacteria into the circulation due to a breakdown in mucosal barrier integrity.

    Recently we hypothesized that this endotoxin exposure may cause androgen deficiency in obese men. To test this hypothesis, we analysed the relationship between serum levels of lipopolysaccharide binding protein (LBP), an indirect measure of endotoxin exposure, against male reproductive hormones, inflammatory markers (CRP, IL-1β, IL-6, TNF-α) and adiposity in 75 men. Adiposity was positively correlated with endotoxin exposure (LBP) and inflammation (CRP, IL-6), while negatively correlated with testosterone.

    Furthermore, endotoxemia (LBP) was negatively correlated with serum testosterone, but positively correlated with IL-6. Multivariate analysis revealed a significant negative correlation between serum IL-6 and free testosterone. In a second interventional study, low-dose endotoxin challenge in lean men produced a transient inflammatory response that was followed by a decline in serum testosterone, without changes in LH or FSH, providing further evidence that endotoxin-driven inflammation may results in impaired Leydig cell function.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29183872
    - Will

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    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

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