7.62x39 Questions

[Leatherneck556]

So I understand that Wolf Military Classic JHP will fragment at closer ranges. Does this diminish the 7.62x39's primary terminal strength: intermediate barrier penetration? Or does the round still effectively penetrate barriers/loaded mags/etc and attain necessary penetration in tissue/ballistic gel to be terminally effective?

Also, what are some of the brand names of the cheaper lead-core FMJ rounds that yaw and tumble early like 5.45x39 rounds? I've heard that Golden Tiger is one of them; is this true?

Lastly, what is a good source for some of the other "premium" 7.62x39 loads. I can't find a place to buy the Lapua 125gr round anywhere. What about the Winchester load and DPX?

Thanks

[d90king]

Not sure that new manufactured GT is lead core. Pretty sure I have seen pics before of it cut open.... Great stuff for shooting though and I don't know the answer to your ballistic question. I think you have to find old stuff to get lead core as I think its not able to be imported theses days. The walking encyclopedia known as Templar will be by shortly with all your answers...

[Jack-O]

the surplus Yugo M67 rounds yaw and tumble. they are very affordable.

the barrier penetration of the x39 comes primarily from it's mass I beleive. the fact that the mil classic expands should not change that too much.

it wont penetrate like the M43, but it still should do OK.

As with any AK... quantity has a quality all it's own. Play the percentages.

[KCabbage]

Premium soft points and the 123 gr. V-Max load are worth taking a look at.

[sgalbra76]

Here's a good read on Russian calibers in general:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19885

The Yugo M67 is the only "confirmed" 7.62 that has the rapid tumble. The downside to the M67 is that it is corrosive:

http://www.ammoengine.com/find/store...x%3Fa%3D445854

Unfortunately, there just hasn't much much testing in the US in the last 20yrs with 7.62x39. It isn't used in law enforcement or our military, so the demand for testing isn't there. One thing is for certain though, brands such as Wolf, Bear, or Tiger are not made to the same standards as US ammo. Fragmentation is an unreliable wounding mechanism, and if the bullet construction isn't done well you may not have any fragmentation at all. Russian bullet construction tends to have too thick of a jacket or mild steel resulting in it being too strong and it won't frag. If someone has actually done ballistic gel testing on it, then you can better judge if it is reliable.

The most reliable Russian ammo type would be a lead nosed soft point. It's pretty easy to produce, and doesn't require the quality controls of OTM or hollow point in order to work reliably. Hopefully you can find what you need here:
http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/7.62x39mm

[Leatherneck556]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I have read DocGKR's sticky thread about the Russian calibers several times, and that is actually what has spawned this line of questioning.

I'm not too concerned about particular ammo selection - as we all know, training is significantly more important than that. But I just want to make sure that I know what is available to me as I'm looking for ammo to shoot out of my AK.

[BufordTJustice]

the barrier penetration of the x39 comes primarily from it's mass I beleive. the fact that the mil classic expands should not change that too much.

it wont penetrate like the M43, but it still should do OK.

I'm a BIG fan of the Wolf MC 124 grain HP. It does fragment (wildly in water jugs that I've shot and also for my friends that have shot feral hogs with it). The hogs that were shot all had the typical large cartilage plate over their shoulder blades and the MC 124 HP had no issues easily punching through the plate and the shoulder blade on the two 90 lb hogs I saw. The fragmentation had already begun in earnest and the internal tissue damage was significant. No meat was gonna be recovered from the front half of these hogs (not that it's good meat anyway). They just nose-dived into the dirt...no squealing or kicking. Just dead. Is this a definitive ammo study? Hell no. But it's as good as or better than shots using Hornady TAP 5.56 75 grain or XM193 55 grain Federal on hogs of comparable size. I would expect the wounds in humans to be appropriately large as well. As for barrier penetration, the sheer weight of the projectile would carry it through many-a-thing before stopping the fragments (if it had begun to fragment). I'd say take it hunting if you can. I've been waiting for some legit gel testing on this ammo for some time......so you lemme know when you find some calibrated tests, okay?