MK12 mod 1 SPR vs SDM/SAM-R

[m1ajunkie]

I have gotten the long range ar bug, and have narrowed my choices down to building one of these rifles. Max range will be right around 600 yards, and either rifle will be wearing leupold mr/t 2.5-8 glass. Just looking for opinions from those who have experience with either rifle. Pros and cons of each?

One thing in my mind is the fact that the SDM type is about $300 cheaper to build, while offering equal or better performance.

Also with the SDM I would be able to swap to a carry handle and use a shooting sling for irons practice without using Buis's.

I would be totally sold on the SDM except it is more of a designated marksmen rifle which seems to be just above the m16a4, while the Spr is another step above the SDM. Is this the case?

[GermanSynergy]

I shoot a Super SAM. The accuracy is out of this world for me. Here are the specs:

Specs:

20" upper built by MSTN with Lilja's Super SAM (squad augmented marksman) barrel, ION bonded internals, M249 Vortex flash hider. The barrel was KG treated for maximum accuracy. I bought the last 20" Super SAM barrel Wes had in stock. Mine is the "last" S/S. Sad

Nightforce 5.5-22x56mm optic with Zero Stop, mil dot reticle and Milrad turrets on LaRue SPR mount

CMMG lower, G&R Tactical LPK

Geiselle 2 stage DMR trigger, properly tuned

Ergo ambi grip

LaRue / Harris Bipod combo and Magpul rail covers. This beauty has a date with a can of tan Krylon and some foilage.)

With 77 grain ammo it can easily group under 1/2 MOA, with a competent shooter behind the gun.

[ReconRanger]

The SAMR/SDMR are DMRs, the Mk12 is a sniper rifle. Nuff said.

[danpass]

probably more info than you're after but here you go!

http://designatedmarksman.com/The_Rifle.htm

[Fontaine]

The SAMR/SDMR are DMRs, the Mk12 is a sniper rifle. Nuff said.

Not really sure if it counts as a sniper rifle either.

It's more like a jack of all trades style weapon, which the undesignated Recce rifle being a bit more balanced towards CQB capability.

I love my SPR-ish build, but it's not capable of the same accuracy as a dedicated bolt gun firing dedicated long range/precision calibers.

However, when comparing the SDM to SPR, the SPR style rifle usually wears more powerful glass, and depending on what you're shooting at 600 yards, you want more power. I brought my SPRish rifle to a long range shoot, and while 600 yard hits on steel at 7x magnification were possible, I was definitely hoping for more power.

Military uses either Nightforce 2.5-10x24/32, or Leupold Mk4 3-9x36 scope with M2 or M3 turrets.

[m1ajunkie]

probably more info than you're after but here you go!

http://designatedmarksman.com/The_Rifle.htm

Thanks for this link. It has several good reads. Which ever type of rifle I go with will end up with a 2.5-8x leupold mr/t scope. I am also planning on running iron sights a good bit to practice shooting irons, so the scope will be in a larue mount. I guess the main question I have right now is, will the SDM be capable of equal accuracy with the SPR. I know the shooter is the main part, but just focusing on the rifles.

[danpass]

given the same ammo:

Equal accuracy …… yes
equal accuracy at distance …… I would lean toward SDM which has the longer barrel.

[ReconRanger]

given the same ammo:

Equal accuracy …… yes
equal accuracy at distance …… I would lean toward SDM which has the longer barrel.

30 fps from going from 20" to 18" wont make any difference in accuracy. Another thing to consider is the AMU chambered barrel was developed completely around Mk262, while I have never heard of a designated marksman with a SAMR or SDMR getting Mk262. Also, the shorter length of the barrel is going to make the barrel stiffer, hence more inherent "accuracy."

Not really sure if it counts as a sniper rifle either.

Well, the Army considers it a sniper rifle, not a DMR. Not sure what the other branches consider it, but Crane originally developed upon the SPR concept as a sniper rifle to complement the SR-25.

[danpass]

So the Colt Commando with an 11.5" barrel has superior accuracy? Will it make hits out to 500yds? Yes it will (according to the Pittsburgh SWATs results in Top Sniper II) but how much energy will it have remaining and will it maintain such consistent accuracy out to, say, 800yds?

The Najaf 'sniper' said his longest shot with his 20" was 792yds and that it was taking 4-7 hits to take the target down for good. I suspect more hits would be needed for the same target and probably more shots needed to get those hits (subsonic rounds, etc)


The Army SDM course uses Armalite SDM-Rs and Mk262
http://designatedmarksman.com/files/SDM%20article.pdf

so I'm sure they'd use it in combat over M855


.

[ReconRanger]

So the Colt Commando with an 11.5" barrel has superior accuracy? Will it make hits out to 500yds? Yes it will (according to the Pittsburgh SWATs results in Top Sniper II) but how much energy will it have remaining and will it maintain such consistent accuracy out to, say, 800yds?

The Najaf 'sniper' said his longest shot with his 20" was 792yds and that it was taking 4-7 hits to take the target down for good. I suspect more hits would be needed for the same target and probably more shots needed to get those hits (subsonic rounds, etc)


The Army SDM course uses Armalite SDM-Rs and Mk262
http://designatedmarksman.com/files/SDM%20article.pdf

so I'm sure they'd use it in combat over M855


.

Nice to see Im not the only one that watches Top Sniper religiously.

I too went though the Army SDM school and we used a limited amount of 262 while most work was done with M855. While overseas however I have never seen a DM be supplied 262, its all channeled to the guys with mk12s. This is how my company did it and I'm not sure how others would do it. The longest I have engaged targets were about 600 meters where 262 is still supersonic. Obviously even 262 wont fragment at those ranges but I suspect from reports from spotters that the tumbling effect is still effective to put down targets.