Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: 12.7'' barrel + AAC Blackout FH M.I.T.E.R. mount = Legal non registered SBR?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    7,828
    Feedback Score
    0

    Lightbulb 12.7'' barrel + AAC Blackout FH M.I.T.E.R. mount = Legal non registered SBR?

    Would I be able to get this permanently attached and not have to get the SBR registered, and just register my suppressor? I'm planning my next build and I am trying to register as little as possible.


    Also is there away to install a DIAS and still use the LWRCi trigger assembly.

    I love LWRCi's triggers and don't want to replace it, but I want it to run full auto, and full auto suppressed.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    149
    Feedback Score
    8 (100%)
    I doubt it becuase the AAC SPR mount is 4.25" long but it slips back over the barrel 2.5" so your really only adding 1.25" to the total lenght of the barrel/weapon. 12.7" plus 1.25" is only around 14-14.5" which is still considered SBR lenght. If you wanted to do a 14.5" you could get away with your original idea.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Aurora, CO
    Posts
    942
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    As long as the flash hider is 3.3" or longer, and blind pinned and soldered, you should be fine for not having to register...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    NoVA
    Posts
    5,089
    Feedback Score
    11 (100%)
    Legal, non-registered SBR is an oxymoron. It's either a registered SBR, or it's contraband.

    Also, there should only be discussion of RDIAS', not just DIAS as the drop-in auto sears all need to be registered as well, and then the lower would be a MG while it was installed, negating the need for an SBR tax while installed.

    If this turns out to be a thread where someone springs the, "Not for me, I'm an 07/02 Manufacturer" I am simply going to lock accounts as we aren't going to play those games here.

    Discuss legal items and configurations, or post somewhere else on the internet. Everyone clear? Good.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    7,828
    Feedback Score
    0

    Unhappy

    ^^ Sorry, I wasn't discussing an illegal set, if I installed a DIAS I would register it, obviously.

    I didn't know what the "R" in "DIAS" meant.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    31
    Feedback Score
    0
    R=registered

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    7,828
    Feedback Score
    0
    I get that now. Thanks though.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    NoVA
    Posts
    5,089
    Feedback Score
    11 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    ^^ Sorry, I wasn't discussing an illegal set, if I installed a DIAS I would register it, obviously.

    I didn't know what the "R" in "DIAS" meant.
    Drop-in auto sears that you can currently purchase legally, while in possession of an AR, would be registered as machine guns already. You would have to do a transfer on a Form 4 to get one.

    Anything else for sale that isn't already on a Form 3 at dealer, Form 4 for personal, and maybe on a Form 1 if someone made one prior to '86, is most likely an ATF sting of some sort...be aware.

    I would suggest reading a lot more of our NFA section, and maybe even venturing over to AR15.com's NFA and Class III section -- if you go there, look for any posts specifically by tony_k, for solid information.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    7,828
    Feedback Score
    0

    Question

    Let me see if I understand this correctly first.

    If I have a weapon registered as an automatic rifle, I wouldn't have to SBR it?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    oregon
    Posts
    7,126
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    Let me see if I understand this correctly first.

    If I have a weapon registered as an automatic rifle, I wouldn't have to SBR it?
    you can't register a weapon as an automatic rifle.. all transferable machineguns had to be registered before 1986 before the machinegun ban. if you have a machinegun, you can have whatever length barrel you want, as the weapon's already a registered NFA item. if an RDIAS is attached to a weapon, i suppose the whole of the weapon is considered no different than a machinegun, so you could put an SBR upper on in.. but the moment you took the RDIAS out, you'd be in possession of an unregistered SBR. RDIASs generally go for 10-15 grand.. so that's a spendy way to SBR.

    isnt NFA wonderful?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    7,828
    Feedback Score
    0
    Damn, I'm spending my money on the SBR stamp and an amazing night vision rig in that case.

    Thanks.

    So if I got the AAC mount perm attached would I have to register it?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,991
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    If your barrel length is shorter than 16" with the FH attached then the answer is yes you will have to register it as an SBR.
    God speed Police Officer Todd Bahr.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    34
    Feedback Score
    0
    According to this page on AAC's site, the MITER mount adds 1.75" of length to your barrel. So it will not get you to 16" with a 12.7" barrel.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    7,828
    Feedback Score
    0

    Talking

    Okay.

    Thanks everybody I really appreciate all the (extremely) useful information posted, you guys were very prompt in your response. I know where I'll be going if I have any questions. Thanks guys. Sorry for the ignorance in the beginning. When I finish my build and buy a camera I'll post pics.

    Thanks again.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    oregon
    Posts
    7,126
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    get a lower and get that form 1 sent off now.. it's taking 2-6, sometimes even 8 months for the ATF to return approvals.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    OKC
    Posts
    59
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    Would I be able to get this permanently attached and not have to get the SBR registered, and just register my suppressor? I'm planning my next build and I am trying to register as little as possible.


    Also is there away to install a DIAS and still use the LWRCi trigger assembly.

    I love LWRCi's triggers and don't want to replace it, but I want it to run full auto, and full auto suppressed.
    Unless LWRC uses M16 FC Components, a Registered DIAS would be useless.
    si vis pacem, para bellum!




    Please leave feedback for me here!

    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=50419

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    OKC
    Posts
    59
    Feedback Score
    0

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by bkb0000 View Post
    if an RDIAS is attached to a weapon, i suppose the whole of the weapon is considered no different than a machinegun, so you could put an SBR upper on in.. but the moment you took the RDIAS out, you'd be in possession of an unregistered SBR. RDIASs generally go for 10-15 grand.. so that's a spendy way to SBR.
    isnt NFA wonderful?
    Actually, according to the NFA Handbook, Appendix B, Page 140, it is stated that it is necessary to place a M16 FCG in an AR15 to run a RDIAS. Unfortunately the wording is not absolutely clear and can be interpreted in different ways.

    A RDIAS is classified as a machine gun according to the ATF as mentioned in this post. However, the Appendix also states that AR15s with 5 or less M16 parts installed will fire automatically with the manipulation of the selector or the removal of the disconnector. Any weapon that shoots more than one shot is a machine gun according to the NFA.
    So it can easily be interpreted that if you have M16 FCG Parts installed in an AR15 (Unregistered Receiver) it can potentially be classified as an Unregistered Machine Gun by the ATF.
    Another question that comes to mind. Where does it say that it is legal/OK to run a M16 Bolt Carrier in an Unregistered AR15? I have heard stories about a letter the ATF publised stating that certain manufacturers could do so, however I have also been told by a couple of respected individuals who are well versed and knowledgeable FFL/SOTs that unless the letter was written to you or you have the exact firearm listed in the letter that you should not chance it.
    Will a M16 BCG cause an AR15 w/ an AR15 LPK installed to accidentally fire full automatic my manipulation of the selector? I think not, but once again it all comes down to how the ATF/NFA rulings are interpreted.
    There are so many questions that come to mind because the material presents itself in a very vague fashion to me. If anyone could point me to a link that has a copy of a statement/briefing from the ATF about M16 BCs used in AR15s, please let me know.
    For all that I know and being a noob on M4c.net it may be buried somewhere in here.
    Sorry about the short novel and thanks for any clarification or links.

    LW
    si vis pacem, para bellum!




    Please leave feedback for me here!

    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=50419

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    oregon
    Posts
    7,126
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    the 15/16 BCG question has been answered a hundred different ways, a few thousand different times. if you want documentation, my suggestion is to write the ATF.

    as far as "chancing" it... do you not realize that there are probably about a million AR15s with m16 BCGs in this country? is there some misconception that m16 BCGs are rarely used or something? there's no "chancing" it... its common practice.

    furthermore, you do realize that the ATF regulates the manufacture of firearms in this country, no? m16 BCGs come standard in Colt, LMT, Noveske, BCM, and half a dozen or more other commercial guns. They do this because the ATF allows them to, not because the ATF somehow isn't paying attention.

    the only reason the STANDARD bolt carrier group is identified as the "m16" BCG is because Colt came out with a supposedly "AR15" BCG that wouldn't operate an autosear. they did this on their own, along with their big hole uppers, large FCG pins, and shelf blocks, to CYA in the event the firearms industry ever became the target of civil suits. otherwise, the question never would have come up, and all we'd have would be one basic cut of carrier.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    OKC
    Posts
    59
    Feedback Score
    0

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by bkb0000 View Post
    the 15/16 BCG question has been answered a hundred different ways, a few thousand different times. if you want documentation, my suggestion is to write the ATF.

    as far as "chancing" it... do you not realize that there are probably about a million AR15s with m16 BCGs in this country? is there some misconception that m16 BCGs are rarely used or something? there's no "chancing" it... its common practice.

    furthermore, you do realize that the ATF regulates the manufacture of firearms in this country, no? m16 BCGs come standard in Colt, LMT, Noveske, BCM, and half a dozen or more other commercial guns. They do this because the ATF allows them to, not because the ATF somehow isn't paying attention.

    the only reason the STANDARD bolt carrier group is identified as the "m16" BCG is because Colt came out with a supposedly "AR15" BCG that wouldn't operate an autosear. they did this on their own, along with their big hole uppers, large FCG pins, and shelf blocks, to CYA in the event the firearms industry ever became the target of civil suits. otherwise, the question never would have come up, and all we'd have would be one basic cut of carrier.
    Eh, I know it is "common practice" however the point I was trying to make was where is it written where it says it is "ok?" I don't know what your point is asking me if I realize if the ATF regulates the manufacture of firearms, duh? All I am saying is in the NFA Manual it never says it is ok to do so. All I was asking was if anybody knew of a "published" document from the BATFE that states that it is ok to do so in a non Title 2 Firearm.

    However, the most helpful part you stated was to suggest that I write to the ATF. Actually, the whole purpose of me asking the question I did was to see if another member had already done this. Thanks anyway!
    si vis pacem, para bellum!




    Please leave feedback for me here!

    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=50419

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Commonwealth of Virginia
    Posts
    3,752
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by lwhazmat5 View Post
    Unless LWRC uses M16 FC Components, a Registered DIAS would be useless.
    This doesn't make any sense. Why would you need an RDIAS is you already have FA components? Could you clarify which components are you talking about?
    We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •